Foundations of Wild Leadership w/ Julie-Roxane Krikorian
Julie-Roxane Krikorian is a French-born medicine woman. She works as a guide & retreat facilitator as well as a women’s health practitioner and an herbalist. She’s been guiding individuals and groups since 2019. In 2019, she cofounded Wild Within, an organization running transformational retreats and educational containers with the aim of supporting the collective healing through reconnecting people to the wild nature of the world around them and inside of them.
In this episode you will learn:
Why most people struggle with calling themselves a leader
Julie-Roxane's personal journey—how she transitioned from Parisian kitchens to becoming a guide and facilitator in my community
The essence of Wild Leadership—the importance of reclaiming the word “leadership” and how true leadership is about embracing the unknown, rather than mastering the known.
Why we need wild leaders today—and how stepping into this role is more important now than ever.
More Info on Wild Within's Leadership Training: Foundations of Wild Leadership
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Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. We have another episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. I always say we have like a special guest because I always feel like we do. And this one's extra special because it's a dear friend of mine, Julie Roxanne Kricorean. She is a french born medicine woman. She works as a guide and retreat facilitator as well as a women's health practitioner and an herbalist. She's been guiding individuals and groups since 2019. In 2019, with her husband Alistair, who is also a past podcast guest, and their business partner, Kellyanne Marjoram. She co founded Wild within, an organization running transformational retreats and educational containers with the aim of supporting the collective healing through reconnecting people to the wild nature of the world around them and inside them. Julie Roxanne, friend, welcome to the show.
Julie: Hi, Lou. Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure.
Lou: So just to paint for people listening. Jill, Roxanne is a dear, dear friend, one of my best friends, and she is partners with Alistair. And Kellyanne Mardrum is my wife. So there's a lot of connections here. So they run a company called Wild within and I get to sometimes support or always support, sometimes be involved, sometimes receive from them. So it's been a journey over the years. So I'm excited to maybe talk a little bit about that but also get into what we want to talk about today. Julie Roxanne, I'll first say you started by telling me that this moment of your life is the healthiest, most serene. You didn't use the word serene, but maybe just most connected or thriving. That's my word. I used that you felt like in a long time, happiest. And I'm just wanting to one celebrate you and just maybe speaking to. Cause we'll go into a bit more of your journey. Like what? What does that feel like? What does that mean to you right now?
Julie: Well, that's a great question. Means a lot. I do want to just reflect. I was also thinking about the fact that you're one of my best friends and we don't say that to each other enough, so it's really sweet to have this opportunity. Yeah. I mean, what it means, it feels like a breath of relief. I think that I've been going through like the last, the past like seven, eight years have been quite transformative. And for those of you who don't know me or who've never heard my story, I used to live in Paris. I was a chef. I was working. You know, I had a very, I don't know, like, my life was on certain tracks and that was, you know, eight years ago that I left. And the leaving of that life, everything that happened from, like, the awakening and realizing, like, how this cannot be my life, there's gotta be more than this. And the amount of things that I had to do to kind of leave that life and build the next, I feel like I. Eight years later, I'm finally in the place where I've built the next next. And it's a nice feeling because there's many, many dark nights during those eight years where I'm, like, looking back and I can't see the shore that I left, but I cannot see the shore that I'm going to. And, you know, like, metaphorically speaking, it's really hard. And so it's a dream. I've been really feeling this, this summer, this just landing into this next phase of life, this new chapter, this new cycle, and it feels really good. And I'm sure there'll be many more dark nights of the souls of the soul. I love those. But right now it feels awesome to just feel. I feel kind of like the summer here in Oregon. It's been lovely and not too hot, not too cold. It's been perfect. That's how I've been feeling recently and.
Lou: Relate to that feeling of not being. Leaving from where you're at, not being where you're at. Not yet, but maybe you have been in that cycle. Maybe more than. Than most, it seems. You know, this is also not a new place for you as we find Julie. Roxanne had a podcast that you ran consistently for four or five years.
Julie: I think it was like four and a half years weekly for four and.
Lou: A half years, which is incredible. It's an amazing show called the Far Out Podcast. So it's still available. Go check it out. There's some insane stories to listen to her and her husband Alistair recount and maybe just. But I'd love for people to just hear some of those highlights as far as where you've moved around and why you've moved around. And I'll just kind of lay up a few because I think one you going on your journey, India, meeting Alistair, caravanning to Guatemala. They have such a unique story that I think is worth shining a little bit and then also give you more of a background into. Julia, Roxanne is.
Julie: Yeah, it's been. It's been a wild ride, geographically speaking, for sure. When I left my life in Paris, I just. I had a backpack and I had my shoes, and that was my home was my backpack and my shoes. And a complete miracle made me go to India, which is so funny because, like, you know, now I'm like, oh, yeah, India. It's a great place to go if you're on a spiritual journey. When I made the decision to go, I just went to reconnect with a friend who was traveling through there. And I was like, who the hell goes to India? That's the place people go to. That's the place people care to go. Obviously went there, fell totally in love, had to come back. And it was for good reasons, because I ended up meeting my soulmate and life partner, Alistair, who is from California. And so we actually realized later in our relationship, not too long, actually, into our relationship, that we grew up on opposite sides of the globe. Go where he grew up, and you dig a hole through the center of the earth and out the other side. That's where I grew up, which is, like, really insane and I think kind of poetic and, like, literally on the other side of the world. And then we traveled through Asia some. And when, you know, we started to feel like, okay, it's time to hang up the traveling hat, maybe, and try to start finding our way back, which has been like, very interesting journey. We landed in France, where I'm from, and we lived, we renovated a caravan and we lived in the woods in France for a couple of years. And then we moved to Guatemala for a year or so. And after that we made the move to the US, which has been one of the craziest, hardest endeavor in my entire life. I've actually was actually reflecting on that yesterday, that it's been four years since I've moved to the US. And that's also contributing to. I'm finally feeling on the other side of this emigration process, which has been spiritually one of the craziest things I've ever done. And I feel like I have, like a thousand books to read about that. To write about that. Not to read, to write, but it's still unfolding. So. Yeah, just the geographical. It's been all over.
Lou: Well, I think you left out maybe some. A lot, of course. But the piece of why coming to the US following a shamanic lineage and kind of going down a plant medicine path.
Julie: Yes, totally. That's been a big piece of the last four years, has been following the impetus of following spiritual teachers that we found in Guatemala who were us born. And we just kind of learning and deep diving into the art of ceremony and being adopted by a shamanic lineage that traces roots all the way back to Peru. And that's another. I mean, that could be three podcasts. I mean, we literally. We recorded, like, so much of the reason we had a podcast was to tell these stories because there were so many. And it's been a very humbling, deeply awakening journey. And, like, I'm hearing myself talk, and there's part of me that's, like, super cringey. It's like, oh, my God. Diplomatic. And then you awakened. Okay, that's cool. But, like, also, that's, like. It's actually it. I feel like I was following such a, like, flutter from the heart and such a, like, drive. There was something that was, like, beckoning me to continue, and it's. It's been. It's been such. It's been such a journey of maturing into, like, the budding adulthood that I'm in and, like, true adulthood, like, the. The responsibility of it and the burden of it and the joys of it and the. And the grief of it and all of that. It's. It's been. Yeah, it's just been four wonderful, wonderful years. And, yeah, it feels good to be where I'm at right now.
Lou: Leaving to go to India. You know, as you look back at that version, that age, that woman, maybe you see her as a girl. Would you. Because we. You know, to tie in this leadership piece, like, would you have seen. Would you have called that person, that girl, a leader? Right? Because I can imagine it takes a lot of leadership, right, to say, hey, I'm not happy or I'm not this. I'm going to make a change. And I guess, yeah, maybe just starting to explore how we view ourselves as a leader or not a leader. And. Yeah, maybe just starting the era of, like, if you look back at however young, Julie Roxanne, you know, was that version of you a leader?
Julie: Yeah. 24 year old Julie Roxanne. You know, I've been reflecting on this. I think that on a very maybe superficial understanding of the word leader, I think I've always been a leader. I have. Like, I was always the one taking charge. I was always the one corralling groups. I was always the one, you know, making things happen and coordinating people. And, like, I was always. I'm a generator, so I was always the driving force behind stuff. I have, like, that motor, and I just make shit happen. And it's also really interesting because I only make stuff happen that I really want to happen. Like, if you try to recruit my motor to do something I don't really care about, it's not going happen. So it's like a. That's another. That's another interesting thing. But I think, yeah, I mean, I remember. I remember the. The experience that prompted the decision that, like, really awakened me to I need to do something else. It was at the end of a really long shift that night, and I was in a lot of pain because I had, like, a really bad ingrown toenail and doing a whole shift as a cook, like, standing, serving, you know, 150 people plus over the course of a dinner shift. I was in a lot of pain when I got home. And at that time, I had started studying self hypnosis, and hypnosis in general, which now I'm like, it's kind of just a form of meditation. It's just an altered state of consciousness, and it's just a different doorway into it. But I checked in with that part of my body. I was like, okay, it seems like you're trying to tell me something in grown toenail what's going on? And the message just was, like, clear as day. Like, you know, you can't keep doing this, right? Like, you know, you've got bigger things to do in this lifetime. And it was both a confirmation of something I'd always felt, but it was also really daunting. I had no idea where to start and what that meant. And, you know, there. I think what was nice about that moment of confirmation is that it also kind of cut through all of the imposter syndrome that I may have felt. It's like, I think a lot of parts of me already knew that I needed to do something else with my life, but there was this, well, who are you to want to do something better with your life? You know, like, just keep the status quo. Like, stop. You know, like, all these, like, protector parts would. Would come up. And I think that that moment was just so clear, there was no denying it. And after that, it was a really complex journey of, like, literally undoing everything I had started to build in my life, like, relationships, places to places where I was living and my work and all of that. And your question also prompts a memory of after making the decision and telling people, like, okay, I'm done. I'm gonna go and travel and have no plans for a little bit. I remember, you know, people had lots to say about that, but I remember someone being like, oh, man, you're so lucky. I really hope. I really wish I could do that. And I was like, it's not luck. Like, I'm literally, like, putting everything that I've ever built on the line, and that's what I did. I burnt my life to the ground to start over, and it wasn't like the energy that that required was really like, now that I think back on it. And it's also a very interesting time to have this conversation with you, because I'm going back to Paris for the first time since I left. I'll be there in three weeks, and I'm going on a pilgrimage to, like, revisit this part of myself. So, short answer. I think, yeah, she was definitely already a leader, and I think what I have found recently is quite a lot of appreciation and gratitude for the fumbling of that. It's like she didn't know what she was doing. She just had this deep conviction in her heart that something needed to be different and could be different. There was such a faith that it could look differently, and I just needed to throw myself into the deep end and hope to God that I learned how to swim. And I almost drowned a few times, but I learned how to swim. And so in that way, that feels really like a leadership quality of being able to trust that just something's gonna. It's gonna work out. Like, if you make a leap of faith that something's gonna rise to meet.
Lou: You, what is it about? Because there's two pathways you could go, and when I hear your stories put like that, it's like, it sounds a lot like my story. Right. Obviously, two different totally situations, but same essence in many ways, of making a big leaving something that's known for the complete unknown and having a lot of judgment or uncertainty or misunderstandings about it. And I can imagine, I don't know if you ever consider. Maybe it's obviously hard to consider it, but what would happen if you didn't leave is just that act of leaving kind of the opening for you to step into this self led path, rather than the path that maybe was laid out for you or not even that was laid out for you. Just. It's kind of like the whatever. I'm just going to do the thing. I'm going to live, and, yeah, I guess I'm just curious of what your thoughts are on just that action, because I think a lot of people listening to this show probably have a similar time where they had to make a decision wherever I, other people might not have agreed or understood. And as I'm reflecting, speaking to you, to me, that sounds like a big act of leadership. And also where I'm going is like, some people might not see themselves as a leader. So I'll pause there just to hear your thoughts on any of that.
Julie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's when you pause, when you brought the question, like, what do you think, you know, what would life have looked like if I didn't make that. That call? There is kind of like, a dark shiver that goes down my spine. I don't think it would be going very well. I was already not doing very well. Like, I needed to make a change, and, like, not listening would have just prompted the not going well to get louder and louder. And so I don't know, but I don't think that story goes well if I had stayed. I think that's something else that I've reflected a lot about, which feels like so much of the drive to leave, there was a survival energy to it. There was pulling myself away from something that was not gonna end well if I kept going down. And it could have looked like a lot of different ways. We don't have to imagine the worst, but I can. Just imagining being a numbed out 33 year old with a partner that I can't communicate with, and maybe we have two children and we're struggling to make ends meet, and, like, just like the. I don't know. I can see a very different picture than what my life feels like right now. But going back to the. To the, you know, leadership question, it's interesting. I I'm reflecting on what leadership actually means and what it actually is, and I think there's a lot of misconceptions around that word, and I think it's actually very loaded. We led a. We're launching it again, but we led our program, foundations of wild leadership, earlier this year at wild within. And I was really surprised to feel how most people. A lot of people who partook, who, like, a lot of the participants, we're having kind of, like, challenges with the concept of being a leader. It's like, it's so loaded. It's so loaded. It's like. I think when, like, the loaded version is, like, we kind of picture, like, the CEO of a corporation, and it's like, that's our version of a leader. And I think so much of my life has been to, like, reappropriate the concept of leadership and to bring it back into its rightful meaning. And I think sometimes this is why we add the word wild in front of it, just to kind of differentiate, because it's, like, I feel like, wild leadership, and at least the leadership that I'm feeling is true. Leadership is a lot more interested in the unknown than it is in the known. And I think that the sort of, like, false image of leaders that we have, or at least what we maybe associate with leadership, is like, somehow you have to know what you're doing. You have to have a bunch of people that don't question what you're doing and that follow you blindly. And you have to, you know, like, I'm making it up. There's probably a lot of, like, people might disagree with that definition, but there's a, there's a sense of, like, it's rigid. I, it's very directive. It's power over. So it's like, there's a leader and it has power over the people that it's leading. And I'm not interested in that version of leadership at all. And I think that that actually causes more harm than good over the long term. So, yeah, I'll pause there. I feel like I can definitely say a lot more, but I'm wondering.
Lou: No, I think you hit the nail on the head with how people have a tough time seeing themselves with that word. I have a mastermind group that the original potential name for it before it became the name that it is. Maybe even two years ago when I was still thinking about this, was wellness leaders mastermind. And I remember telling that to someone who I thought would be a good fit, and her first reaction was like, oh, I didn't even think that would be for me. What do you mean? You're doing, like, you're bringing mindfulness into your, you know, you're stepping out and bringing mindfulness into your company, doing these things. Like, of course, like, you're lead. And she's like, oh, yeah, maybe I am a leader in that way. And so, yeah, for whatever reason, we see the corporate sterile leadership training is such a buzzword. And if you want to be a keynote speaker, go talk on leadership as one of the biggest opportunities to do it. And I will say, I don't think all, I think people are speaking, not just, and I don't. I think in the healthy ways and even in corporate, they're speaking as, you know, more of a servant leader. Right. You're not, not like the power over. Right. You know, power by example in some ways. And, you know, our buddy Seth would say about the leader is going into the unknown. And, you know, with that, I know, comes a lot of imposter syndrome because how could we know what's going to happen? How could we have all the answers which, um, maybe people think they need to have if they're going to be a leader. So I loved, I never even realized to me it was just wild within. So that's why you called it wild leadership. But now comparing it to how we think of regular leadership, wild leadership, makes even more sense. Sense now. So I guess tell me more. Well, tell me, you know, wild within just to keep, keep connecting the dots of your personal journey to kind of what you're excited about right now and around this leadership piece. But when does, how does wild within enter your picture from chefing to meeting Alistair and, yeah, maybe speaking, highlighting that a little bit or how has that evolved for you?
Julie: Yeah, I love all the down memory lane questions you're asking me. It's so fun. Yeah, wild within. I mean, I remember, I'm pretty sure you were on that first phone call or you were at least in the background. I vividly remember where we were sitting. It was on the land that we had our caravan, and that was like, in the woods in France. And your now wife Kellyanne called Alistair and said, hey, I just went to Yosemite, and I feel like we could totally organize a retreat there. And I'm wondering if you want to partner up so that you can, because Alistair had a lot of backpacking experience at that point and, like, hiking through wildernesses across the world, because he did that before we met and we did that some together. After we met, he somehow, I decided it was a great idea to go to everspace camp with him after having done zero amount of training. And it worked out. I was young and it worked out. But, like, it's, it's really funny to look back on, like, just the things we did early on. But anyways, yeah, Kellyanne called and said, let's make something happen. That was 2018, and in 2019, we ran our first, our first wilderness backpacking retreat. That was such a mission to organize. And it was, we've been reflecting on this a lot of how we completely did it backwards. It's like, you know, most people will build out their businesses and they have that funnel, right? They have, like, the, like, entry level offering and then the, and then you offer the big thing that, like, the big offering, flagship that costs the most money. And we just went straight for that. We were like, whatever, that's going to work. And it did. Somehow we had people come and do that retreat with us. And then, you know, I think everybody remembers 2020 and 2021 and how the world was back then. And so we kind of had to, there was no capacity to do these retreats during those two years. That prompted quite a bit of questioning around what we were doing, we had a different name back then, and then that's when we rebranded into wild within, and we started feeling our way into, like, what is this? Because wild within feels so much like a dream. It feels like something that has been birthed and that has a consciousness of its own and that is informing what it wants us to do. We're kind of, like, serving to this bigger vision that is wild within, which is kind of the simple version of what you shared in my intro, of this idea that the wild within and the wild without are kin, they're the same thing. And if we can connect to one, we connect to the other. And it's just this remembrance of the richness of life when we're able to connect to the more than human world, which is like a term that I can't remember who coined this, but it's like the idea of the, the whole ecosystems that we live in. And so we've been just really asking the questions of, like, what is that? How do we serve that mission? How do we serve that vision? And it's been quite a ride for me personally, because I was part of wild within at first, and then I kind of stepped out of it and then let Alistair and Kellyanne do mostly the thing. And now I'm back in, you know, again, this is like, it could be a whole different, separate podcast, but there's been lots of interesting interpersonal, like, marriage dynamics of, like, running a business with your husband. And so that's been a lot of why I think I stepped out for a minute, and then now I'm back, and I feel like. I feel like I'm back with the right intentions in the right way. And it feels so good to be in service to this vision again, which really ultimately is like, it feels like this big oak tree. That's the vision. It's like, can we grow this vision, this company, this organization, to be a place that people can come find shelter at different stages of their life when they're ready to dip their toes into the work? And so we offer retreats, and we did a wonderful retreat in Guatemala that you attended that was, like, blew all of our minds and was so transformational for all of us. And, you know, we offer educational programs online. We've, we've ran a couple of wild women and wild men within programs that were so fun to, like, go for a few, for eight weeks, go with a group of men and a group of women to, like, explore the archetype of the wild woman and the wild man. And I think every time we offer something, there's a feeling that not only the participants but us as well, we get something back. We retrieve a piece of the larger question of what it means to be human in a good way and walking the beauty way, which sounds also a little cliche, but it's like, what else is there to do? Is there a higher purpose than learning to walk the earth with beauty? I don't think so.
Lou: So beautiful. No, no. Probably not the right word to use, but, yeah, it is the right word to use, but cliche or whatever. I'm losing the right word, but I think just highlighting how, you know, as someone who's gotten a front row seat, they definitely did things backwards. And I. If you go to my podcast with Alistair on the wild truth of running retreats, you'd hear more of that story of starting with retreats, which is the hardest thing to get people to join and
Lou: shoot. Are you still with me?
Lou: The way that you started, which for many people is a lot. To start with retreats and to keep that going, it would be the business advice. A lot of people don't tell people to start with retreats, start with everything else. And, yeah, I just really, I mean, I admire the slowness that you've allowed it to go and the way that you ask what it needs of you. And I think that's something we all could learn from in. Sometimes it's tough for you all because you have a company that's very separate, because it's communal. So there is this entity of the company, and I think for, let's say, a solo entrepreneur, it is important to maybe LLC or to have it separate and to actually see it as its own entity. And I think just asking that question, like, what is this wanting for me? Like, I might want it to be doing X, Y and Z now, or wanting to have this many clients or this much success, yada, yada, yada. But can I slow down and ask, what is it wanting? And it's not always an easy thing to do and something that you all do really wonderfully. And I think as a. As something. Yeah. Something that I think should be a takeaway for people just in asking that question. Right. What is. What is my business? What is my work wanting of me rather than what am I wanting of it? And often the paradox is the thing that it's wanting is probably what's going to make us the most content and happy anyway.
Julie: Yeah. Yeah. That's such an interesting rabbit hole to go down. Like so many things that you said, I think that's been such a learning curve of learning to slow down, to actually pay attention. This is also, I think, one of the, the gifts of doing it with three business partners is like, obviously we have to go slower, especially because we're bi coastal and so we can't. And also, like, I think, you know, I'll speak just for myself, but, like, my health, like, took, it took a real turn a couple of years ago and there was a point. I'm feeling great now and I'm so grateful because, like, I actually think I needed to go through that crisis to feel the best I've ever felt in my entire life. And it did, like, show me my limitations and, and that, I think, was a very humbling experience to realize, like, what I can and cannot do and, like, how do I show up to the vision of my work in a sustainable way, something I've been doing a lot and that I actually guide a lot of, you know, our, my clients that I serve, like, you know, one on one. And then the people that we work with at wild within is like connecting to our 80 year old selves. I've been really doing that practice for myself of, like, when I make a decision personally or, you know, business, like, checking it with my 80 year old self, it's like, is that building what I want that to be? And I think you just, at the time of this recording, you just sent an email about that that I replied to because I was like, dude, we're on the same page. It's like, maybe if I'm lucky, I'll achieve some of the things that I'm dreaming of in my lifetime. But this is a long, this is a long game. And, like, how do I show up in the long game? And it's going to be different for everybody at different stages, depending on what you're offering, depending on, like, the. Depending, depending on your vision, depending on, you know, how many people you're working with, alongside with. It's like so many pieces to the question. And it's just been a fun, well, fun now, there's been difficult times, but it's been generally a really interesting conversation with God of, like, what. How do we make this happen in a good way and a lot of time? It's a lot slower than I think we would want it to be.
Lou: You've learned a lot on this path. You've worked through a ton. I know. As you talk about wild leadership, can you speak more to what are those principles or qualities that someone can start to think about? Or maybe it'll help them be like, oh, yeah, I am a leader, or, oh, yeah, that's more accessible to me than I even thought.
Julie: Yeah, yeah. I think maybe to just set the stage a little bit is so much of the work that we're doing, so much of the vision that we bring is, to borrow the terms. I think Bill Plotkin coined those terms, which is one of our big influences. He said, moving to an ecocentric view of the world and an ecocentric perspective rather than an egocentric one. So that's a first and foremost question. It's like, how do I re center the larger world around me? Rather than, it's like, how do I broaden my horizon? And it's helpful for me as I'm talking to you. It's like I see that I'm on my land and there's oaks everywhere just outside of my window. And the question I think that we ask all the time is, how is nature showing leadership? What is the model in the natural world for leadership? And in ecosystems? Some of the elder plants, that's literally what they're called. So maybe in the redwood forest, you'd have the redwoods or the elder plants, but how do they support the entire ecosystem? Because underneath at the roots, they're supporting mycelium. Mycelium is supporting them back, and then they're providing shade for all the undergrowth and the, you know, middle sized trees and all that. It's like in untouched ecosystems, you have, like, elder plants. And I think for me, and I know for us, for me, the concept of wild leadership is really just a question of, like, elder, like, how do we work towards elderhood? Like, and the first step before elderhood is adulthood. And I think that, like, recently I've been reflecting on how true, like, adulthood, like, mature, initiated adulthood, is wild leadership and vice versa. So really, the, sometimes I laugh with myself and with Alistair, I'm like, our program should have been called foundations of true adulthood. I just don't know if it would have sold as well. But it's like, or it says catchy, or I don't know. But I think the, some of the principles, just to make it clear, is first and foremost, I think that wild leadership rests more on the unknown than on the known. So the capacity to stay in the unknown is the only way that we can actually open up to true, lasting change. So it's like I'm coming into a space. I'm coming into a conversation, say, I think I like using the examples of, like, one on one conversations with, like, friends or family members. Because I think that's like the prime. That's a, that's a really easy place to start looking at how we show up as leaders or not. And it's like when, when these conversations, when there needs to be a hard conversation with a family member or with a friend, because I know sometimes family can be a whole lot and not, maybe not the most accessible point to talk about this, but if there's a conversation that needs to happen with a friend, like, how do I show up to it? And so the principles will be for me. And this is what we teach in the course and what we teach, what we kind of bring and emphasize and bring to life in the program is like, the ability to come and be in the total unknown of how the conversation actually is going to go. And being willing to sit in the. Like, it's not just like, oh, it's unknown and it's scary. It's like it's unknown. And that's the most important part is, like, I have no idea what's on the other side of this conversation, but I need to remain open. And I think that leads into another big principle, which is the heart, like, showing up in my heart. This is not a, like, I think sometimes the leadership feels like it's up here in the head and it's very thinky, but it's like heartfelt thinking, heartfelt leading. That's actually what's going to be way more open up, way more of a space for transformation to happen, for, like, healing to happen, for, you know, whatever life wants to do and surrendering to something greater. Like, this question of, like, how do we serve? I think the way we serve is by mostly listening. And it's not so much listening to the person that you're having a direct conversation with, but it's like listening to the space, listening to the silences, listening to what spirit wants to do in this moment and what is, like trusting life in a deeper way. So there's an element of faith as well, of like, do I have faith that if I show up and I don't know what's going to happen and I don't insert my agenda into the conversation, that somehow something even better is going to happen? Like, that's, that's, I think a huge piece of, you know, wild leadership is like finding those places of faith. And that's, you know, I know that that can be different for everybody. We can put our faith in different things, but maybe at the simplest core, it's like faith in life, faith in, like, just something greater so that's another piece is like being able to connect to that and, yeah, just going back to the heart, it's like that's from that place personally, that I can be in true relationship to the unknown and that I can be in true, authentic, like witnessing of whatever, you know, the people in the space that I'm engaging in, that I can relate to them for real, that I can, like, just genuinely listen to what they're saying if I'm listening with my heart and if I'm speaking from my heart when I need to speak. So, I mean, there's many more. Maybe the last one I'll say, because it feels like that's one of the pieces I'm bringing to the program that I feel most excited about is I think that while leadership requires us to be really clear about what our gifts are and how we can lead from our gifts, I'm not going to try to lead the way someone else is leading. The only way to be in true, authentic, wild leadership is to lead from my most fabulous self. And that's true for everyone. And it's like we all need to find because we all have it. And I think that's where the imposter syndrome sometimes can creep in and be like, well, no, you don't have anything special, bro, or whatever you have that's special. Everyone else. Someone else already does it better than you. And it's like refining the, what actually makes you, like, a really important member of this, like, tapestry of life. And how do you contribute your gifts? Because, like, at the end of the day, we don't just need one or two people to lead us. We need everybody to be able to do this in their communities, because that's the only way we're going to continue to inspire each other to, like, I don't know, grow out of the mess that we're in. Because right now we're, it's, it's a, I think we're all feeling it. It's not great. We need people to show up and do their work and do it from their heart. Like, it's, it's like, it's dire. We need, we need people to show up. Like, that's a cry from my heart. It's like, wake up, please do your go and offer your work. Go and offer your magic.
Lou: I had a longtime client recently message me saying that the reason that she works with me is so that I can help her remember who she is, so that she can help others remember who they are. And I never just heard such an essence example of, like, yeah, that's it. That's it. That's what we're doing in some ways. And it's like helping her highlight her gifts so that that can have an impact on other people, as the Ram Da says. And we're all just walking each other home in that way. And so what are. Or how would you help someone find their gifts? And maybe, you know, maybe. Or you can. An example of someone who came through that you've worked with where you're like, oh, maybe they thought it was this. And then, oh, actually they found that their gift was this. Or you could share your own gifts and how you came with that. You go either. Go either way.
Julie: Yeah, I mean, I think here's what comes up when you ask the. A few years ago, I took part in a leadership course with. With a bunch of women, and it was really transformative. And one of the exercises that we did there, which is what I bring to. To the foundations of wild leadership as well, is this. It's like a little worksheet, very simple, but you in it, you fill out, like, the eight memories that stand out the most in your life where you felt like you were in flow. You felt like you were the happiest, and you felt connected to your environment, and you felt connected to whatever you were doing, just like, in flow. And so it could be like, I was journaling by myself in a cabin when I was 23, or it could be preparing a meal for my entire family, for my parents, like, 50th wedding anniversary or any version of that. I remember a woman being, like, when I go snowmobiling in the back backcountry in, like, Washington state or Canada, it's like, okay, cool. And you, like, lay all those out, and then the. The essence that lives within, like, the thread that goes through all of these is, like, your gift, and you're gonna want to, like, refine it. It's helpful to do it with someone. It's helpful to have, like, a friend that you can, like, tell the stories to, and then they can, like, track, like, okay, what is it that, like, consistently shows up in those memories? Like, what is it that's there throughout? And the advice I was given is that whatever your truest, most epic gift is, chances are you don't even know that you're doing it. You don't even know that you have it, because it's so second nature that you don't even think about it. And, like, one of the ones. One of the things that came up from doing that exercise a few years ago that I actually still believe is quite true and is going to sound a little. I don't know, maybe a little like I'm tooting my own horn or whatever, but. And that's not coming from that place. But it's like, I think a lot of the. A lot of my medicine is just my, like, gigantic heart I love with a passion. And it's sometimes a lot to be in my field of love, because I can be real honest with you. If I love you and you're about to do something that's wrong or something feels off, I'm going to have those conversations with you. And at the same time, I can be this mushy pile of tears on the regular. And I think that, like, this. This. That place of heart is where I find, like, I can. I can bring most value to people. But then, like, what's cool is that you can hear that and be like, okay, that's all right. But then when you work with your gifts for, like, years, it just deepens and deepens and deepens and deepens. And it's like, the deeper you go, the deeper it gets with it.
Lou: Is this the similar to the zone of genius exercise you did at that time?
Julie: That's right. That's exactly that.
Lou: I just pulled up the email that you asked me to fill out these questions.
Julie: Oh, my God. Yes. That was an additional one. Yeah, that was another prompt for that. That's right, yeah.
Lou: So can I share some with you?
Julie: Yeah, yeah, please.
Lou: So, when you experience me at my best, the exact thing I'm doing is. And my answer to her question was, being a womb others can find safety and nourishment in. And then what do you see? A special skill I'm gifted with. And I said, have the courage to see people and tell them what you see, even if it may be uncomfortable. Interesting. Which is pretty much what you just said.
Julie: Yeah.
Lou: What are your three favorite qualities you see in me? And I said, expressive, bold, truth telling.
Julie: I can go on, but, yeah, it's really funny, actually. I forgot that was a part of the conversation. I forgot that was a part of the exercise. It was like we had this worksheet that we filled out for ourselves, and then we also were asked, like, send out these questions to people around you. I love that you reminded me of that because that was also. That was super edgy. I remember, like, sending these questions and being like, what are people gonna think? And it's a lot because you got a lot. But then it's really funny because you realize, like, most people reflect the same thing back to you. Like, there's a thread. There's a general thread of what you emanate, your essence, your magic. You can call it whatever.
Lou: Yeah, it's a great exercise. It does. There is an edge to it, for sure, because it's like, are they gonna project their own? Like, are they gonna. You might hear some stuff you don't wanna hear, or is it true or not true or. But, yeah. Would you recommend people doing that part of it or asking other people?
Julie: I would. I would 100% recommend people do that. It was very validating. It was very validating, and it was very supportive to realize that, like, I had people in my community that, like, wanted to reflect back to me, because that's one of my, like, things that I'm working on, always is. Like, being able to reach out and ask for support and ask to be seen, because I do that for people so much, I forget to do it to ask it for me. And so it's an ongoing journey. So that was a great, that was a great exercise. Thanks for reminding me of that. Totally forgot.
Lou: Yeah, that's fun. And I had only known you probably when you sent that email almost a year, I'd known of you for longer, but only matched probably just almost a year at that time. And so I could probably say similar things now, knowing you for. For much longer. Right. So there is that.
Julie: Does that still feel true to you? Does that, when you wrote, does it still feel true?
Lou: I think it does. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Julie, Roxanne, anything else that we haven't discussed, whether it's leadership, anything that might be helpful for audience to hear, to step into, and we can talk a little bit more, obviously about what's coming up for you. But, yeah, before we do that, like, anything that's on your heart and mind to share.
Julie: Yeah, yeah, I think what's on my mind and heart, like, directly, just talking to your audience, which we've been doing, but, like, more specifically, just a heart to heart to your audience. I've been hearing a lot more stories recently of people who are, like, kind of in this. In a position where I was eight years ago, where, like, their lives are falling apart. They feel like they're unraveling, but they seem. They're, like, called to doing something different, and it requires tearing down a lot of what they've built, and it's terrifying. And I just want to be a voice in that time. If you're there, if that's where you are, or if you're you know, if you're a couple of years after that or in the early stages of, like, feeling like you want to make some changes and you don't know where to start, just, like, trust the process. Just trust the process and trust that the hard parts, like, the excruciating, terrifying parts, the nights where you're alone and you don't know if what you're doing is ever going to make sense and it's ever going to work. Just trust that this is all the alchemy process that you need to ripen and to become who the world truly needs you to be so that you can serve this larger mission that you're here to serve. There's a quote by David White that says, I can't remember if it's adulthood, but I think it's true. Adulthood is having the largest conversation that you could be having with the world. And it is my sincerest hope that, like, as many people as possible start having the largest conversations that they can have with the world because we need it. We need it.
Lou: Amen, sister. Beautiful. Beautiful.
Julie: Makes me all. Makes me all fuzzy. Emotional.
Lou: Yeah. Just really sitting with that. Just, you know, I hope everyone can feel the essence of that as I feel, as we feel. So, Julia, Roxanne, what's coming up for wild within? I know you have another foundations of wild leadership. Maybe speak to when that will start and highly before you even say anything about it, like if you're looking for having, you know, some more skill around space holding or leading your life or a call to, you know, something's calling you about Julie Roxanne's essence, maybe just listen to that first and foremost. But yeah, I'll let you speak about it first because.
Julie: Thank you. Thank you. And it's been really sweet to have a conversation with you. I told you I was pretty nervous before and I'm like, have felt zero. Just like, oh, we're just having a conversation. Like we would anyway. Yeah. So we're doing another cohort of foundations of, wow, leadership. We're really excited to see what comes through and who kind of answers the call with that. We will begin the week of September 30, and it's going to go until the week of November 4. So it's going to be six weeks. The exact times and dates will be decided together as a group. We found to do that last time was super supportive for people. And you can expect weekdays in a late afternoon evening time to accommodate for both all the time zones across the US. But yeah, September 30 to November 4 and feels like a great time to dive into that. A little bit of back to school energy, a little bit of setting ourselves up for this, you know, school year. It's, it's, it matters. Um, and yeah, it's, it's a, it's a real. It's a real honor to be offering this work. And it's. We're going to do a weekly call that's going to be like, kind of the bulk of it. And it's going to be a little bit of teaching, a little bit of experience, experiential. There's going to be some breakouts. Like, we want this to be like, you're practicing the skills and you're like, getting in those edges of practice and, like, discomfort at times. And you're just like, learning to tune into your own capacities as a wild leader, which, again, I think that we all are here to be called to that. This is not like, well, I'm not a leader. Plus, I feel like if you're listening to this podcast, you're definitely intrigued by this. This is already something that you're considering, like the idea of am I a leader and how do I offer my work? That's it. That's being a leader. So, yeah, we're going to meet weekly and then there's going to be like, partner groups, partner calls, shorter, that will be also weekly just so that people can practice off the calls. We'll have, like, exercises and we're trying to keep it, like, again, very interactive and not super heady. Like, we're not. There's not going to be like, required readings on the side. It's very, just like, come show up and bask in the, like, community aspect of it. You know, like you were talking about your mastermind and I know you're also big on that. It's like the. What happens when you're in a group of people who, like, are doing, are interested in doing the same thing as you? Maybe it's not the same exact thing, but the essence of it. I feel like what I've seen happen to people who joined the first cohort was like, everybody found their, like, way to, like, speed up their work in whatever way that needed to be. And it's really nice to hear actually from people where they're at now because it's like, oh, yeah, you like? Not that I don't know that everybody would say it was because of foundations of, well, leadership. We're all doing a ton of things at the same time, but it's like, it contributes to carving out time each week for you to reflect on this aspect of your life. Otherwise, if you don't carve out that time, then it goes to the wayside and it's like, that's why the community support really helps. So. Yeah, well, I'm super excited for what's going to happen there.
Lou: I'm doing. Who would you say it's for? Right? Like, is it, you know, I have already 100 trainings around my belt. You know, maybe this is not for me. Or is it for them? Like, is it someone that's just like, hey, I might want to, like, hold space for people. Like, yeah, maybe speak to. Who would you say? Obviously, maybe it could be for both, but curious, who would you say it's for?
Julie: Yeah, I think that, like, I want to say my feeling is that this is relevant for everyone. Like, literally every adult that's ready to kind of pick up the mantle of responsibility for co creating a different, like, for co creating the reality that we're all living in. And it is a foundational program, so it's going to be a bit more like you're craving information about this. You're wanting to get your hands in it, but you don't really know where to start. Maybe you're starting to lead group circles in your area. Maybe you're starting to work one on one with people. Maybe you want to do these things and you just don't really know where to start. And you just want to have a place where you can explore what that could look like. It's kind of a great place to come to refine your offerings and get real grounded. We were feeling this as a roots program and I think that could be true. As someone who's done many, many, many trainings, I love going back to the basics sometimes because I think that there's something I relearn. I discover new layers of the basics every time I go back to the basics. So I think that that whatever, whoever is feeling the call is the person for this is my. Is like the simple answer. And one of my big heart places with this is also I'm really big on people who are mothers and fathers and people who are feeling called to find a new way into community and into how we relate to our family systems and communities and friendship groups and all of that. To me, it can be a business thing and it does not have to be a business thing.
Lou: Love that. Yeah. So I hope if you're feeling the call that you step in, I think it's such a great foundation. I don't think. I don't know what you're charging nowadays, but I don't think it's crazy, crazy expensive. So I think you'll find an accessible way in for a solid six week program, not an eight month thing. So not a big commitment. So if it's calling to you at all, highly recommend checking it out. We'll leave a link to something in the show notes.
Julie: Exactly.
Lou: You'll see more info there. Julie: Yeah, there's going to be a link in the show notes to a little PDF with all the info and how to sign up and where to direct your questions, should you have them. And you can also check out more about what we're about on our website, the wildwithin.org dot. So yeah, yay. Lou: Well, thanks. Julie: Yeah, this was really sweet. Lou: Yay. All right, friends, we'll see you next time. Take care. Julie: Bye.