Embracing ADHD and Building a 800k Meditation Following w/ Cyrus Aka The Mental Level
In this episode, Cyrus shares his transformative journey with ADHD and how mindfulness became a life-changing alternative to medication. He discusses how he turned his personal practice into a successful meditation business during the pandemic. Cyrus also touches on his rapid growth on TikTok, personal challenges, and the teachings that helped him navigate crises.
You will learn:
How mindfulness can be a powerful tool for managing ADHD.
The steps Cyrus took to build a meditation business during the pandemic.
Strategies for growing a social media following, particularly on TikTok.
Insights from David Hawkins and Michael Singer on handling crises.
The importance of consistency and achievable goals in teaching meditation.
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Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. Welcome to another interview episode of the art and Business of Meditation podcast. I am your host, Lou Redmond, and we have today Cyrus, aka the mental level, and he is all about no nonsense mind training and meditations that help you tap into flow state, deep focus, and your best self. The mental level is dedicated to helping those who wish to find deep concentration, mental and emotional freedom and balance on a consistent basis in an accessible way that gets straight to the point. Cyrus, welcome to the show.
Cyrus: Ooh, that was a mouthful. I gotta trim my bio down.
Lou: Not bad. You should see, sometimes I have on my interview thing where I tend to try and find bios because I just try to make it as easy as possible for the people to come on. And recently I've, people have been sending me their bios and they'll be like, pages long. And, you know, now I have a little note, like, if it's really long, I'm going to cut your bio because you can't, you know, the way that I do it. I talked in the beginning. Some people, some podcasters do it differently. Anywho, Cyrus, so great to have you here. I've been watching some of your stuff. You speak exactly to what your bio says. Like, it's this fun, straight to the point, really good editing. Like, I'm excited to talk about kind of your filmmaker background and maybe speaking to some of the stuff that you do on YouTube and other places. But first, I just love to hear, you know, you're into meditation, concentration, flow state. Like, how does that enter your life on your journey?
Cyrus: Hmm. Like, how did I get started with all that?
Lou: Yep.
Cyrus: Well, I had severe, and I guess technically do have severe ADHD. And it affected me most acutely when I was a teenager. And I wanted to get, I was at a point of desperation where I was like, you know what? It's not my preference, but at this point, give me the meds. And my parents went, sign the form to sign off on the meds. They were like, you're on your own, kid. Like, a little bit of tough love, you know, they meant well, and I'm glad they did because it worked out. And I just had to go. Fortunately, I was shown some mindfulness stuff around that time, and I just was like, okay, this is the alternative. If it's going to be anything, it's going to be this. And so I dove headfirst into that. And as anyone with ADHD knows, your superpower, if there is one, is the hyperfocus. And so I became very obsessive with that. And dove really deep into it, and I guess the rest is history.
Lou: So tell me more about that with ADHD, because I'm not as popular. I know it's becoming more on. The awareness for many people feels like everyone's an ADHD coach now that I look on Instagram. I don't know, it just seemed like it happened overnight. I'd love to just hear, because I hadn't known about the. When I think of ADHD, I think of, like, attention deficit. So you don't have the attention. But I have not heard of the hyper focus. So maybe just enlighten me of, you know, because I don't have. Have ADHD or at least haven't, you know, thought that I had. So I'd love to just hear more about what the symptoms of that are.
Cyrus: Totally. Well, ADHD typically presents in a way where when you hear it offhand, it's like, well, everybody's kind of like that, but especially these days, as you alluded to. But it's. The dichotomy is even more. The gap is even more vast in the sense that people with ADHD tend to not be able to focus on things that they don't care about and tend to be able to focus very intensely on things that they do care about. And so, as I was saying, most people would hear that and go, well, I'm like that. I'm not an interest in stuff I don't care about, and I love things that I do care about. But most quote unquote, neurotypical people could focus on their taxes if they really had to, they could grind it out, whereas someone who's on the more severe ADHD side of the spectrum couldn't. If they tried, they would sit down and really try to grind it out. But I. They literally couldn't engage. They would get distracted by something else really quickly and get into a cycle of frustration, whereas the hyper focus, whereas a neurotypical person would be more likely to focus and do deep work on something they care about. ADHD people can be intensely focused for long periods of time and go into almost, you know, obsessive rabbit holes of focus and obsession. So it's a blessing and a curse, I suppose, if you want to go down that old evolutionary trope, like, someone in the tribe would have to be the specialist and would have to focus on one thing at the exclusion of everything else. And so it would be an asset in that context, but also a drawback in some ways.
Lou: Super clear. That's really helpful. I'm glad you spoke more of that. So you find. So mindfulness is the way in as far as meditation goes, like, and you're teenager.
Cyrus: Mm hmm. Well, I think people with ADHD tend to have a belief that they can't meditate because they sit down and their minds are even more active than the average person, and they're more likely to get drawn away by mental loops and what have you. But I tend to be of the belief, because my personal experience, that it's more challenging for people with ADHD to do meditation, but it's definitely possible. And it's just as, if not more important than the average person, in my opinion. I mean, you can go the medication route, and that's fine. You could incorporate both. There's a balance, I think there's a season for everything in any particular person's life, depending on the situation. But I have never been on medication. I meditate for an hour a day, and that's my medication. And so if I do that, I can be very focused on almost anything I want to be, even things that don't necessarily particularly interest me. But if I don't do that meditation or if I don't do a rigorous meditation, I am very different. Like, I present as a classic kind of, to this day, like, very adhd disposition, if you will.
Lou: Who were teachers or what did you follow back then? If you're. I don't know. I'm putting us at a similar age. We might not be, but I'm 34, same age. So exact same age. I know in high school, I wouldn't have if you told me, okay, go. Go start meditating. That wasn't even on my radar. Right. So I'm curious, like, in 2006, seven, eight. During that time, like, where are you seeking your resources, and what does that look like as far as teacher recordings? You know, meditation halls. Yeah. Curious to hear about that.
Cyrus: Well, that was around the time that Eckertol started publishing his most famous books. And so I got really into the power now. I got really into a new earth. So that kind of gave me a spiritual, philosophical foundation and obviously very simple, very accessible. But as far as the meditation side of things, I remember reading a book called mindfulness in plain English, and that was kind of the first book that got me into more the practical side of things. Cause Eckertul doesn't necessarily talk a ton about meditation. He doesn't even necessarily prescribe meditation for everybody. But I also had a mentor around that time who was. I worked for a video game website as a journalist writing about video games and the guy who ran the site was really big into Vipassana and had done a bunch of retreats. And I actually live in New York now, and he lives in New York, so we're friends in real life now, even though we lived in completely different places because I'm from Canada. And he just told me a lot about Vipassana and just gave me some basic pointers and I just started doing my own sessions. And I guess over the years just basically became self taught because once you find your way into those states, you go, okay, if I take a left here and I take a right there, I can kind of find my way into Samadhi or, you know, really deep state. And I just, I suppose I wasn't big on. I was a rebellious kid. And so the idea of having a teacher didn't vibe with me at the time. And so I kind of, I was in that self taught mentality and just went as deep as I could with that.
Lou: Me and you, probably similar in that vein. And so curious, when did you, what was the impetus then to, okay, I'm kind of accessing these deep states. This is helpful for me. And then when do you start saying, okay, I'm going to create the mental level or create meditations or start sharing it with other people?
Cyrus: Well, I guess right around the time when I was reading Eckhart Tolle, it occurred to me like, oh, people are crazy. You know, like, I was looking around. I was looking around and I'm like, hang on a second. Like, the way I feel when I read this book feels normal. I feel sane when I read this book. And then it provided a sharp contrast where I looked around and I'm like, oh, people are literally acting crazy compared to what feels true. And so it then just logically followed to me, like, all right, well, this is stupid to keep this information to myself. And then, you know, you go down that initial rabbit hole of, let me be the annoying person that's sharing this with people that don't necessarily want to hear it or aren't ready to hear it. And then you start to parse out, okay, who are the people who are at a moment in their lives where they're asking for something like this and might be receptive to some kind of wisdom or guidance? And then you start to realize, hey, there's people who are coming to me for, I was listening to one of your podcasts with Surah Kim, who I love that podcast. And I think she was talking about how she was on Wall street, you know, she was coming back from these retreats, and she had all this wisdom, and the people around her were like, teach us. And she's like, well, I'm not qualified. And they're like, we don't care. We feel the vibe. Teach us. And I think that's kind of what it was like for me, too, where I was just like, well, I'm just. I don't know. I'm some kid, but I feel like I have some useful knowledge, so let me just share it with my friends. Let me share it with the people around me. And then that led to little gigs here and there and little kind of coaching client situations, and then it naturally evolved into a more formal thing. And then during the pandemic, I mean, that's when that type of wisdom is at a premium, for obvious reasons. And so that's when I really started to formalize it and turn it into a quote unquote business.
Lou: Were you working up to that time? Like, did you have another job? I know you said you do film. Like, is that still, like, a part of your life? Or was it like, okay, I'm going. Was there ever, like, an all in on meditation and coaching time?
Cyrus: I would say it was like half in and half out. For the years leading up to the pandemic, I was doing it in a sort of semi formal sense up until that point, but I was doing a lot of other things. And I was working on jobs when I was in New York. For the two years leading up to the pandemic, I was working in restaurants. And, yeah, when the pandemic hit, I was like, well, not working in restaurants anymore, and might as well, like, there's tons of people who are asking for help with this type of stuff. And so I wasn't thinking of it from a business standpoint at that point. I was just thinking of it as, like, it sounds a bit dramatic, but, like, this is a crisis situation. Like, from a mental health standpoint, people are messed up right now. People are terrified. People are looking for any semblance of calm. And so it's like, let me just give some kind of respite care at this point for people who really need it. And then as things calm down a bit, it's like, all right, well, there's still people who want this stuff, but there's a lot of people who initially, I think it's like the New Year's resolution crowd who's like, give me everything. When the pandemic hit, it's like, I need something. But then when things calm down a bit, it's like, we're not going to go to the gym anymore, so to speak.
Lou: And so you don't create a first meditation until pandemic in terms of recorded meditations.
Cyrus: Yes, that I published online. Yeah, no, that was pandemic. Yeah. Up to that point, it was just like working in corporate spaces, working with clients one on one. But that was when I started to kind of launch it in terms of social media and inside timer and all that stuff.
Lou: Yeah. And it sounds like, I mean, it seems like doing that, you had, you've had a really solid amount of growth in the different channels I think, that you've, you published on. Which one was the first one you were? Was it YouTube that you were, like, focused on? And then how did insight timer come in?
Cyrus: Well, it's funny because I wanted to focus on YouTube because I'm like, well, I want to do long form meditations because I believe that has the biggest impact for people. What you believe has the biggest impact for people is not necessarily what people want. And so I'm like, well, YouTube would be great. I want to build that, but I need something to drive traffic to YouTube, because the algorithm is kind of tough to crack if you're just starting out on YouTube. That was my impression of it. And so I'm like, well, maybe I could do some social media, but I really resisted TikTok. I thought it was the devil, because I'm like, this is what's breaking people's attention spans at this point. But a friend of mine who's really business savvy, he said he's a serial entrepreneur, and he said, cyrus, you need to get on TikTok, because this is where everyone is, and this is where people will be receptive to what you have to share. He's really bought into meditation as well. And so I relented because of his advice. I went on TikTok. I tried to make a bunch of fancy edits and cinematic cuts and flashy, interesting videos. None of them did well. None of them took off. And in my state of exhaustion and despair with the whole TikTok endeavor, I just set the camera up on a tripod, talked off the dome, no preparation, no planning, and that video went viral. And I'm like, so I put, like, hours worth of effort into editing these videos. Nothing did well. And then the one time I was just authentic and simple, that's what took off. And so that was my super lazy strategy for growing TikTok at that point, was like, let me just set it up, do whatever flows. And those are the things that started to take off, and then the TikTok started to take off, and then that started to drive traffic to my YouTube, and then I went on inside timer, and inside timers, as you know, is amazing. So, yeah.
Lou: So how are you still active on TikTok?
Cyrus: Sort of active, yeah. There was a point at which I was posting probably every day, and now I probably posted an average of, like, once every few days.
Lou: But what did you grow that to? Because that's actually the platform I don't even think I saw you on.
Cyrus: I think it's like 730,000 or something like that.
Lou: Amazing.
Cyrus: Yeah.
Lou: Yeah. Okay, cool. So I can see how that would drive, because it sounds like you. You're doing. Looks like you're doing well on. On YouTube. Um, and so what is your. I guess I love some of your content is. And when I could see how it really works on TikTok, like you said, that's. You have a way to just get, like, quickly, humorously, to the point of something which does really well. What is your process now? Is it. Are you just hitting record? Let's see what comes or what it. Like, what is your creative process around, like, let's say, meditation specifically?
Cyrus: Yeah. So it's basically the same thing every time in the sense that, like I said, I meditate for an hour every day and usually, like, clockwork, somewhere in that last 15 minutes of the hour, some idea just drops itself in and then, like, it doesn't. I don't think of it. It just comes to me because I'm in that deep meditative state at that point. And it could be like a hook, like, for the start of a video. It could be a general idea for a video, whatever it is. And I guess it would sound pretentious to maybe, like, mainstream audience, but given the podcast we're on, I think the audience will get it. Like, it just feels like what the universe wants to say that day through me, you know? And so I just try to respect that. And then depending on my level of excitement, I might, as soon as the meditation is done, I might record it instantly, or I might do some other work first and then go record it. But I just take the idea and I run with it. And usually, the more purely I respect that impulse, the better the videos do, the more people respond to them.
Lou: Are you doing a video daily or meditation daily now? Or is it more like, if it comes, it comes and I let it through?
Cyrus: Yeah. So I would say there's, like, a difference between the social media meditations and the YouTube meditations, because the YouTube inset timer meditations are proper meditations that are anywhere between, like five and 20 minutes. They're like long form meditations. I record them on a proper microphone. I edit them. You know, I add music. I really try to be as meticulous as I can with making the quality as high as I can. But the social media meditations, I'll do those, like every day or every other day because they're literally just like, I set up the camera and I just talk. And I talk into this wired microphone from 1992 or whatever that's from. And, you know, I just, and then I just post it, and there's no effort or editing whatsoever. It's literally like a five minute process from start to finish because it's like, I open the phone, I record, I.
Lou: Hit cut, I post it, and they're actual, they're not. It's not a talk. It's like a meditation.
Cyrus: There's a mix, like some. Sometimes there's an idea that I want to talk about, and I'll just riff on that. And sometimes it's like a kind of a mini 32nd to two minute meditation.
Lou: Okay, if you're catching this, like, slow down right now, just drop into this type of, you know, kind of, kind of interrupting and giving people like a minute to drop in, sort of. Because I know, I know another person doing well and that tried those type of, like, really short bursts. But I think it, you know, for a place where people are scrolling, I, and kind of going down that I think it is nice, could be really nice offer in ways for just people listening, thinking of, oh, it doesn't always have to be a 20 or 30 minutes meditation on insight timer. I could do. Have I tried out a 32nd meditation on Instagram? Or if you're on TikTok. TikTok and seeing how that works or YouTube shorts or, you know, always experimenting. So it's good to hear that. That sounds like it's worked for you.
Cyrus: Yeah, well, totally. And what I've learned from it is that unfortunately, people, like, the average person's baseline mental state, mental and emotional state is so poor that, like, a 32nd meditation will make them feel significantly different. And so, like, to a meditator, like, to a regular meditator, that's like, 32nd meditation is like, nice, but it's not a significant difference from your baseline, probably, generally speaking. But what I've learned from people's response on TikTok Instagram, when I post these videos, people are like, wow, I feel so good. And from my perspective, as a regular meditator, I'm like, what? But what I've realized is that they're just so stressed and in their heads that 30 seconds of a break from that is like a night and day feeling. And so I think of it like a gateway drug. If you just show, okay, this is how you're going to feel from 30 seconds or two minutes of meditation, people will be more likely to take the bait to go for a longer meditation. Whereas if you just say, hey, do the longer meditation, they have a lot. They have their hackles up. They have their preconceptions about what meditation is. It's a losing battle, is what I found.
Lou: What is your 60 minutes practice look like? Like, is it just like a simple, more of a pasta style, like body breath, like concentration, like, do you go through a visualization, like, yeah. Is it. Is it a 60 minutes straight or you do 30 minutes, 30 minutes kind of a block type of style?
Cyrus: Yeah, if I can help it, it's always 60 minutes straight, which I think is really important, because for me, there's a momentum effect, and I think for most people there is. But it's basically, I mix it up every day. But I would say the basic structure is I do some deep breathing, maybe some four, seven, eight breath holds, like, five of those. To settle myself in, I set an intention. I watch my thoughts for five or ten minutes after a little bit of grounding, like basic grounding, and then I watch my emotions do some kind of letting go techniques, somatic processing type stuff for maybe five or ten minutes, and then I do a body scan, but passing a style body scan, and then I expand my attention to my whole body so that it's covering head to toe. And then I expand to the room until my awareness is stable in the room for about five or ten minutes, and then I expand to all space until I stabilize that awareness on all space and everything, all the details, sensory details, space, sensation, for the last 1015 minutes. And, yeah, I think that's probably self explanatory.
Lou: Yeah, you're inspiring me. I haven't gotten back to an hour, actually. The birth of this podcast came from a month where I'm just like, I need to, like, up my meditation game. I committed to an hour a day for the month of May 2023, and it was in the middle of that commitment where I had a podcast was titled something differently before, and I was like, I just saw it. I was just like, oh, this is what it's going to be. I know exactly who it's for. I know exactly what I'm talking about. And so I do about. I do 30 minutes. But you, I know there's such a difference going past that, that extra 30. Like, there is such a. Such a shift, and it's just like choosing to create that time and trusting that that time is going to actually be way more beneficial than the eight other things that I could start doing.
Cyrus: Totally. I mean, the way I think of it is, like, if I'm already in for 30, whoo, that 2nd 30 is going to be exponential. Like, why? Why am I getting up if I've already done 30? Is my mentality about it. And really what it is to me, in my mind, is just western conditioning of, like, you're gonna sit there for an hour and do nothing and just meditate. That's ridiculous. Like, you got shit to do, bro. But what I tell myself is like, okay, if that's the card that my mind is playing, like, you have to be more productive. You can't spend an hour, especially at the start of your day, when you could be getting going, doing stuff, creating momentum for your day. I tell myself, how do I actually feel when I do an hour of meditation? I feel unwaveringly focused and present. The level of efficiency and productivity that I'm going to generate from that state is significantly higher, is going to pay me back that extra half hour unquestionably, and then some. And as soon as I remind myself of that, all the resistance to doing the extra half hour goes away.
Lou: I love that so much. So you talked about the or in the inquiries shared, and I'll share my own experience of it around the spiritual teacher, meditation teacher, ego. Right. When you kind of grasp onto this identity and, you know, in my story, I had a pretty sudden spiritual awakening, not being around spiritual people and not really understanding what was happening. And so I thought I was very special because I didn't. In my world, no one was experiencing the things that I was experiencing, and I thought that I was. I'm gonna be a little, like, aggressive, or I'm gonna paint this picture maybe in a. Being a little bit too hard on myself in some ways, but of just, you know, seeing as, like, I've gotten this gift from God that I need to give to the world. In some ways, we do. Right? There's, like, a truth to that. Like, yes. And I think we all do it. But there was definitely times in my journey, and I have a lot of love at the same time for that kid. Cause there's this healthy naivete of what you don't know of thinking that, you know, for me, I had this vision, and in some ways, I kind of did it in my own way, but it was like I was in San Diego, and, like, I'm going to bring meditation to New Jersey because no one's meditating in New Jersey, and, you know, it's. It's. It's 2015, and it's finally ready to be brought to New Jersey, and I.
Cyrus: I'm the yogananda of New Jersey.
Lou: Yeah. And in many ways, that was how my journey started, and it all worked out. Like, I'm glad I did. I've had my humbling moments, for sure. Life will humble us, for sure. And so, you know, I ask you this to say, me, too. Right? I've been there. And so I'm just curious, maybe if you've been there or anything that you can share about people, what to watch out for in that kind of spiritual teacher, meditation teacher, kind of letting that identity and that specialness almost delude us in some ways.
Cyrus: Mmm. Totally. I'm trying to, like, tamp myself down slightly because I could risk speaking too bluntly in a way that's maybe slightly too blunt, but. Well, yeah, I would say. Well, yeah, obviously. It's just, like, completely false. Like, if you take a spiritual perspective on it. So you've been given a gift by the universe that has nothing to do with you. It's yours to give. Your ego could try to claim it and say that you're special, but that's just ego. And all it really is is a distraction. And I think, in my experience, it's definitely something I deal with all the time. All it really does is make you complacent, make you, like you said, deluded. Make you feel separate or somehow superior, disconnected from people. It creates a weird dynamic where it's like, oh, I have something to offer you, and you are the recipient of my gift. It's like, no, that's not what's happening. And you can buy into that, but it's just not what's happening. It's like, if you've been given something, in my mind, it's your responsibility to keep giving it if you have the capacity to do so, to the extent that you have the capacity to do so. And I think about to kind of bring it full circle. The power of now, like I mentioned, I read that when it came out maybe, like, I don't know, 20 years ago or whatever, and I picked it up off a bookshelf this past summer, and I felt really bad because it was the last copy on the bookshelf. And I was like, I'm gonna take this, even though I've already read it, and, like, rob somebody else from having the opportunity to read the power of now for the first time. I even said it to the clerk as I was checking out. I was like, yeah, I feel bad for taking this book. And he's like, don't feel bad, but he didn't know the story. So, anyway, I read it, and I realized there was a reason I was meant to take it because it completely blew up in this whole idea of, like, spiritual ego, spiritual, you know, meditation coach ego, all this stuff. Because as I was reading the book, I had this expectation going into it that I would just be brushing up on some fundamentals, some stuff that I already knew. And that was not my experience of reading it at all. I was like, holy shit. My mind completely filtered out a ton of this, some of the most rudimentary, fundamental stuff. It just warped it or washed it out of my consciousness completely. And it was completely humbling, because all the little subtle ways in which we project ourselves into the future, my ego, my mind, had crept in and found ways to do that, even with me. And it was the ultimate insidious trap, because as a quote, unquote spiritual person or meditation teacher or whatever, you have this. At least I have this. I'll speak for myself. This comparative mechanism in your mind where you're like, well, I'm more present than most people. I'm more spiritual than most people. So, like, that's good enough, and I'm on my own journey. So where I'm at is where I'm meant to be, which is perfectly nice and hard to argue with on the surface, but it can be a trap, and it was certainly a trap for me because it was doing exactly what he described in the book, which is putting off the, I don't want to say responsibility, but saying, let's say the opportunity to be fully present right here and now without saying, well, I'm like, present enough. I'm more present than the average person, so I can think about the future more than the average person, because I'm fine, I'm good enough. It's like, no, that was just a way to split my consciousness into three and think about the past and the future way more than I actually needed to, because I had this ego of believing that I'm more advanced than most people and I'm on my own path. So it's fine to kind of not be fully present, because it's a dimmer switch or it's a. It's a sliding scale. It's not a light switch. But on some level, that was B's, is what I found. And as soon as I called myself out on it, I'm like, oh, no, there's a way deeper level of presence that I'm capable of accessing. And that was what I experienced when I first read the book 20 years ago, that my ego had slowly undermined in the subsequent 20 years as I got further and further away from it and formed this belief that I already know, that I already learned, that I already internalized, that I don't need to study it, I don't need to practice it as fundamentally and deeply as the average person or whatever. So I'm curious if you have any similarly mirrored experiences or thoughts or something different.
Lou: I've kind of really allowed myself to want a beginner again in meditation, even more so recently, taking up a. At least just fall. Like, I had never listened to meditations, really, ever. Maybe if I go on a retreat, I'm gonna listen to the guidance and maybe, like, you, like, I've never been humble enough to learn from one teacher, or I've also just been interested in many other teachers, too. But to say, like, this is my teacher feels like there's always been. Yeah. This difficulty with surrendering in that way. But I've also. There's a part of me that's always wanted that so deeply. But just recently, I've actually been practicing. I'm on about a month straight of this app called the way with a zen master, henry Schuchman. He has. He's out of santa fe, I believe. He's been on, actually, some bigger name podcasts, like Tim Ferriss show. I think he is Kevin Rose. He's like a big entrepreneur, his meditation teacher, anyway. And that's been nice to, like, come back and just remember, like, coming back to the basics. And I think, you know, the thing that's humbled me, I have a dear friend in my life that's a humbling force for me in allowing me to checking myself. And, you know, recently, plant medicine has been incredibly humbling for me and exploring that and seeing in the ways that I think that I'm special and I'm someone who. I don't know if you have followed the Enneagram at all, but I'm on Enneagram three, which is like the achiever, and just have this. It's part of my personality. And so I'm trying to. I had this conversation with a buddhist teacher pretty recently on the podcast Jessica Mori. And we were talking about how, you know, because she was bringing up all of my insecurities. She's coming from this lineage, this Theravada lineage. I don't know about you, but I'd actually, I co teach in a meditation teacher training without any formal certificate that says Lou Redmond, meditation teacher. Right. I just started in 2015. People liked it. I kept growing. You know, I've done other trainings. Like, I have, you know, all other trainings, yoga and, you know, that stuff, but no, like, actual meditation thing. And so, you know, I think a lot. I mean, I think so much of this work is embodied. So I do believe that that's actually going to be the biggest felt sense of, like, how is you internalize that work? And, you know, that's also another me aversion to let me actually learn from someone. Because then I have to admit that maybe I'm not this very special meditation teacher, this advanced meditation teacher, but speaking to her on the podcast, which she was highlighting my insecurities, I even told her, I was like, hey, you're very esteemed. You're in a lineage where you're studying. You're going on multiple month retreats and years before. Your teacher is like, okay, now you're ready to teach, right? Where I'm just like, I'm ready to teach because. And is it wrong or right? Those aren't the wrong ways to look at it. Deep respect for that path. And it just also, like, trying to honor my own path. But what she said that I think is true is that our egos, our human personalities, which I think in some ways are nature pinks of nurture. But I think there is a very core nature to personality, that those can serve the mission, those conserve spirit. And if you have the, hey, attentions on me, it's fun to be in front of a room. Like, if you can do that with awareness that it can really serve humanity in some ways now, time and time again,
Lou: the seven deadly sins will find people. So we're all human. We're going to have greed or power, lust for power, those things. It's an age old story to see these gurus fall or to see anyone in any kind of achievement fall. So, um, yeah, trying to think of how can the ego serve? And also, yeah, staying humble. Like, I'm a big believer. Like, I. I relish in a good humbling now because I know that's always where I'm going to go deeper into my practice. Like, that's how I'm going to go deeper into my connection with God is when I'm humbled. Right. It's like that literal word, like to be on the ground. Like, we think spirit is this high. And sometimes in the new Agey world, people think it's like, about, you know, expanding to this upward dimension, but actually that feeling, that, like, support of going down into the earth, right to the ground, and then getting emotional, I don't know what. Then there's like, there's like nothing left to stand on, right? It just. That's it. You're at bottom and you're still here. So speaking of that, I don't want to say that you hit a bottom recently, but you were sharing a bit of your story as we were conversating. And without getting into specifics, I know there was some adversity that you overcame, and you could take this in a few different ways. How does someone who is seen as well, you have it mentally and emotionally together? You know, how do you navigate when you don't have it mentally and emotionally together? And how does that look like on a. You know, how you show up if you show up to the world or if you give that time to just, hey, like, I'm in my own stuff and I need to honor that, and that's okay, too. So, yeah, feel free to take that wherever you want to take it.
Cyrus: Great question. And I'm not dodging the question, but I do have something I wanted to say about what you said a moment earlier.
Lou: Yes, yes.
Cyrus: I think that's really astute about having the ego serve those greater purposes. And I think, yeah, absolutely. If you can find a way to channel it, that could be a really healthy use of it. The way I think of it is it's the difference between being bought into the ego versus having a sense of humor about it and seeing it for what it is. So, like, if you're loving being the center of attention teaching, it's like as long as you have that little awareness above yourself, seeing like, ha ha ha, look at Cyrus or look at Lou, like having so much fun being the center of attention, and you have that detachment, I think that could be a good springboard. But as soon as you're like, yeah, I'm the center of attention, that's where it gets tricky. And the example I think of, even though it's a bit of a weird example for a meditation podcast, is Conor McGregor, the MMA fighter on his come up. If anybody's not familiar with him, he's one of the biggest MMA fighters in the world. And I'm sure at this point, almost everybody's heard of him. But regardless, on his come up, he had this kind of, like, tricksterish, self aware, performative energy. And he had this Muhammad Ali type of patter of like, you know, I'm the greatest, and would talk a lot of crap to people, to his opponents. And he would always big himself up and he would fight immaculately. He would fight in pure flow, in pure presence. But at some point, if you followed his career, and it certainly precipitated, predictably, as you alluded to in terms of that age old story, precipitated his downfall, because at some point, you saw this shift in his ego. I mean, we're not inside the man's consciousness, so we can't know for sure. But to me, it seemed quite obvious that something happened where he started to buy his own press and he started to really believe he was the greatest. And it wasn't this Muhammad Ali performance. It was like, I'm Conor McGregor and my crap doesn't stink and I'll destroy anybody because that was his experience up until that point. But he fell into the trap of buying into it. And then he was slightly out of rhythm in his fights. I mean, he's such a skilled athlete that he's still gonna fight well, but he wasn't fighting in pure flow and rhythm and presence anymore. And in a sport like fighting, that's gonna be the difference between lights out and, you know, lights up. So that's, I guess, one of the examples, I think of in terms of the difference between Conor certainly was enjoying his ego, was channeling his ego, but he had a sense of detachment from it on his ascent, and then he lost that. And maybe he took one too many hits to the head. And that's why he lost that ability to kind of have that meta awareness. Who knows? I'm not trying to be glib about it, but literally. But, yeah, it can happen to the best of us, I guess, is my point. If we're not vigilant about it, as far as your question, I'll just.
Lou: Let me just point it out. We'll keep going, keep running these through this tan. Yeah, I do want to respond to that. I would love watching the come up and come down stories. And I think Connors is now on Netflix, too. His son, some of his story, at least. But there's a line that I think speaks to what you're saying, uh, that I love. And I think I heard it from Tim Ferriss, is that like, you're never as good as anyone says you are, and you're never as bad as anyone says you are. And if you can kind of, like, hold the middle and it's like. And once you start buying into either side, like, you start buying into I'm the shit or buying into I suck, you know, you've given away your power, and it's a recipe for something not ideal or not optimal to happen. So, yeah, I wanted to share that. To share that.
Cyrus: Yeah, 100%, yeah. I mean, like you said, I'm not necessarily going to get into specifics as to what's happened in my personal life, but I will kind of speak generally to it. The last year has been the hardest in my life, and I. I've gone through. You know, it's kind of the cliche about these things happen in threes. I've gone through about three extremely difficult situations, the likes of which, I think, individually, all would have been traumatic or bordering on traumatic if I hadn't had the tools and the support to deal with them. But, yeah, through it all, I've still done my best to show up for people, show up for clients, show up for the meditations I want to create, show up for the community, all the stuff. And it's been difficult, obviously, but, I mean, there's so much I can say on this. So I think I'll rely on your guidance a little here in terms of what direction you want to point me in. But I think the first general thing I could say is what surprised me about it is, although perhaps it's not surprising in retrospect, but at least when I was in it, I realized, like, for example, if I'm working with a client, that's the easiest and best part of my day. On the surface, it might be like, well, you're going through something really difficult. So this is going to be the most challenging part. Leading up to it is difficult because you have to pull yourself together and really show up. But when you're doing it, you're getting out of your problems, which if you're going through something super difficult, probably completely overwhelmed by, and you're literally having to pivot your attention outward onto someone else, which is bringing you out of your own problems and making you forget all your shit for a little bit. That's a good point. Yeah. So on the surface, it's like, well, how do you show up? That would be so hard. But actually, it's the easiest part in my experience.
Lou: Interesting. So you can put yourself either in the client or even diving into, like, okay. I don't have to think about it because I'll go make a meditation or go make something. I'll go. Work is an addiction, or it can be a way to also not look at the things in our life, and I know I've been guilty of that for sure, so. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And did you lean on. I guess, what have you learned? I guess coming out of. Coming out of it? Like, are you feel like there's lessons as far as how you show up teaching, or is it just like, hey, I moved through some stuff, like people do, and kind of on to getting back to where you're at. Like, is there like a. Almost like a hero's journey gift that comes from it or that you've. Maybe. I mean, maybe it might still be showing itself. So maybe it's not even as clear as, like, yeah, I got this one thing from it. Not that you were meant to use everything that happens in our life for our own gain. So. Recognizing that, too.
Cyrus: Oh, yeah. I know what you mean, though, I think. Well, truthfully, I'm still kind of in the middle of, like, two out of three of those situations, so I wouldn't say I've overcome it, per se, but I think I've gotten to a somewhat better emotional and spiritual place with it. One of my favorite spiritual teachers is power versus force and letting go. And he talks about.
Lou: Can you say that again? You cut out for a second?
Cyrus: Okay. You can hear me now?
Lou: Yep.
Cyrus: Okay.
Lou: Who is the teacher?
Cyrus: David Hawkins.
Lou: Yeah. Awesome.
Cyrus: So, yeah, so one of my favorite teachers is David Hawkins. He wrote power versus letting go. And in one of his books, healing and recovery, he talks about, there's a chapter on handling major crises, which if anyone's going through something really intense right now, highly suggest seeking that chapter out. But one of the things he talks about in that chapter is how, when you come across, he calls it a confrontation. Like a super challenging event in your life or an overwhelming crisis, it unleashes the full scale of negative emotions. So if you think about his map of consciousness of all the negative emotions being on the lower end, it essentially unleashes all those emotions at once, like a tsunami. And that was definitely my experience. And I think, I guess to walk you through it a little bit, initially, the feeling was like pure overwhelm. It was like being drowned and then coming up for air and trying to breathe and then getting drowned again. And then once that drowning sensation subsided a little bit, it was like, okay, there's still a massive amount of. Of negative energy, negative emotion, fear, grief, worry, like, all the stuff, and anger, resentment, everything towards oneself, towards others, like, all the negative emotions all at once, all there in a beautiful cornucopia. And at that point, my experience, as someone who is trying to share these tools to elevate your consciousness with other people, I felt like a fraud because I was like, who am I to share this stuff with people when I can't even pull myself together, when I'm inundated with this much negativity? Like, I should be able to rise above this, even in a moment, this difficult, if I'm the real deal, if I am who I think I am, which is just another form of ego, obviously, but in that moment, that's what came up. And ironically, you could just say that's another. That's the negativity masking itself as a form of thought or as a form of ego trying to drag you further down into its depths. But that was what was coming up. And so that, obviously, on a practical level, interfered with the mental flow of my work a little bit at first. But then I kind of just thought to myself, well, you know, you don't have to be a. An NBA player to coach in the NBA. You know, like, you don't. You don't necessarily have to be out there on the court doing the thing right now. I don't necessarily have to be perfectly present to help someone else be their version of present. And so I just took that mentality as long as I could, as far as I could in that type of moment. And then I suppose the. The legendary human resilience that people speak of showed up at some point, and it's like, well, I came up above the wave long enough to get some perspective, and the negativity subsided and time worked its magic. And even though I'm still in the middle of a bunch of it, there's something in the human spirit that's just like, nah, don't want to stay down too long. Gotta keep it practical, gotta keep it moving. And certainly, I think a lot of the training that I've had the good fortune and privilege of doing over the years prepared me to step into that resilience. And it's not perfect, and I'm still far from perfect at it, and there's still a lot of stuff coming up, but the waves are fewer and further between at this point. And so through it all, I think the way that I've coped is, like I said, showing up for other people because I get to put myself in their problems as opposed to being in mine. And I've also tried, just like the cliche about artists putting their current heartbreak into their song or whatever. Like, I've tried to put my, as I'm sure you've experienced through your work in meditations, tried to put the themes and the emotions and the realizations, the epiphanies that came up through this experience into my own meditations. And certainly that's been a gratifying process because those have been some of the meditations that seem to have resonated the most with people in real time.
Lou: So thanks for sharing that, man. And you're the second I had, this is my second interview today and my first podcast I had. He mentioned he was really influenced by letting go and David Hawkins work. And as I was in 2018, I was in, like, a huge David Hawkins phase. I would consider him a pillar spiritual teacher for me. And hearing him show up a couple times is making me be like, hmm, know, don't want to, you know, dive back in to some of that work. I still watch some of the YouTube videos that I follow, you know, here and there. He's just. He's just a funny and sweet guy, man. Just, I, he helped me. You know, I think in, especially early on in the spiritual journey, we can get. At least I got. We can get sidetracked by the. I don't know if he said this or if I named it that, but the. Maybe it was him. Like the spiritual circus. Like, there's. I'm gonna go to a medium, go to a psychic. I'm gonna go get my tower. By any way, if you do any of these things, I'm not knocking that, but, like, if you're the seeker and you just go to these kind of, like, mind body spirit fests, you know, I used to sell books at these places. I'm. I'm part of you. I'm here. Like, I'm from the inside. But sometimes those places are, like, the most ungrounded places that you could pot. You can go to. Like, there's just a lot of. A lot of movement, and you can, you know, you could. I could see. I could potentially see myself, too, falling down some. Some sideshows and some rabbit holes. And what I loved about David Hawkins is he would always say, straight and narrow is the path. It's you, it's God. And what was the. What is the thing he would always say in the beginning of his book? The beginning of his books was like, some prayer, some, like, simple prayer. Anyway, I'm forgetting it. But, yeah. Love David Hawkins. Keeping me straight and narrow on the path. Yeah. Yeah.
Cyrus: He was one of one, for sure.
Lou: Yeah. Any other people that you're like, that you follow or get inspired by nowadays?
Cyrus: Well, we're. It's between Eckhart Tolle, David Hawkins, and the guy I'm about to mention. We're turning into the trifecta of old white spiritual teachers. But Michael Singer. I read the surrender experiment, kind of, perhaps not so coincidentally, right before all this started, about a year ago. And it was like, the universe, like, hey, here you go. You're about to go through some fucked up shit. Here's the book you need. And it indeed was the right book at the right time, because it primed my mind and my spirit to be as consistently in a state of surrender as I possibly could be through this whole thing, which I think was probably the saving grace that stopped the aforementioned waves from completely contorting me. But, yeah, also his book, the untethered soul, I read a couple years ago, and it inspired me to make a short film based on the second chapter, the roommate in your head, just talking about how there's, like, a roommate in your head chatting away, blah, blah, blah.
Lou: And I saw that when I was looking at YouTube recently. Oh, you just. Did you just upload that?
Cyrus: I just uploaded it, like, a week ago. Thank you so much. I read. Yeah, if anybody's listening wants to check it out, go to the mental level on YouTube. And it should be the first video. I made it the featured video, so it should pop up. I think the title is like, how to. What to do when the voice in your head can't stop talking. But, yeah, I read that chapter two years ago. I wrote the short film instantly. I'm like, this is a great idea for a short film. And then I thought, we need to find twins to portray this because, you know, visually, the audience will get disguised the voice in his head because they're identical. And I'm like, where am I gonna find two twins that can act? And I was looking, I was looking. Couldn't find anything online. I found one identical twin, but the other identical twin didn't wanna act. So it was like. It was a nightmare. And then I called my buddy, and at the end of the conversation, this was, like, truly from the universe. At the end of the conversation, I was like. I had this thought pop in my head. I'm like, you should ask him if he knows any identical twins who can ask. But I almost stopped myself. Cause I'm like, even in a conversation with a friend. This is a weird question to ask, but I was like, nah. So I said, hey, dude, do you know any identical twins who can act? And he paused and he was like, saqib and Akib? And I'm like, who's that? Turns out they're these magicians. They've done TED talks. They're two identical twins who have a performance background. They don't act, but they're professional magicians and they're lawyers. Now, one of them lived in New York, one of them lived in Toronto. The Toronto one came out and shot it in New York, and now they both live in New York. So I'm like, friends with them now. And we shot the short film last year and it just got released last week. And it was just like so many perfect things lining up. So somehow in my mind, that short film wanted to be, wanted to be made because it couldn't have worked out more perfectly.
Lou: It's really good. Once I saw it, I literally just saw it today. And I'm like, wow, this is such a good concept. Such. Obviously it's one of those things where like, yeah, this is obvious. Did I see this before? Like, I should have seen it before. You know what I mean? Like, I should have seen this before, but I don't think I have. And so, you know, that. That's good where you're like, oh, yeah, this needed to be made in this way. Maybe it is, I don't know. But yeah, you did a really, really great job on it. So please go check out the mental level on YouTube. I think it's your featured photo, your featured video right now, right?
Cyrus: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Lou: Appreciate that. Yeah, of course. Um, so before we, like, share, like, anywhere else people can find you. I mean, mental level, I think, like, I. All the places online, but any, you know, for someone listening, that's creating meditations or teaching, you know, do you have any idea on, like, where, where they, where have you found to be the most nourishing for you? Like, as far as to lean into, as far as whether it's a specific platform or whether it's, um, you know, your interactions one on one or in person? Like, I don't know. This is stupidly broad question.
Cyrus: So, yeah, I was like, I'm not sure I understand the question.
Lou: If anyone, like, you know, where, where would you say to someone start, right? Hey, get a certification from this place, get a read this book, or, you know, post stuff on insight timer. I guess that's another, like, where I just, I just want to teach meditation or I want to share meditation. Where do I start?
Cyrus: Hmm, great question. Um, I think I'll give a broad question to a broad answer, if you don't mind, because I wish I could give more specific advice. Well, I don't know. We'll see. I'll just give it and we'll see how it goes. My suggestion would be, be workmanlike in your approach, in the sense that, and I'm sure you can relate to this, just judging based on how prolific you seem, based on what I've seen from your output. I set a goal when I first started making meditations, recorded meditations online. Like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do one a week. Come helter high water. I'm not going to miss a week. And I don't think I've missed a week. Maybe here and there, but I don't know. It's been a few years now and I've never missed a week. And so that puts an internal accountability. Like, even if I don't feel like it, even if my mind is saying I don't have any ideas or I don't feel inspired, it's like, sit down, meditate, wait for inspiration, whatever you got to do, like figure it out, go for a run, whatever you got to do, and create some kind of goal that seems sustainable. Maybe it's, I create a meditation every other week, but a lot of teachers that I see on inside timer don't have a lot of tracks. And so in my mind, like, at least like newer teachers, maybe, let's say, and how are you going to grow if you don't give yourself a chance to be shown to your audience over and over? And so I think I've made tons of meditations that I think are great, but they only have like, I don't know, 50 to 100 plays on insight timer. And the only reason the ones have more plays, have more plays is because I just made a bunch and some hit and some were well received and some got pumped out by the algorithms and other ones didn't. I don't think it speaks to their relative quality. Some of the ones that are good, I think are not better than the ones who have like that have 50 views. So just, just that consistency. And then the other thing I would suggest as a very general piece of advice is, and it's kind of obvious, but I think it's easy to get lost in the sauce of worrying about business, worrying about making money. Not to say that that's not important, but my mentality has always been. How can I give away as much free value as possible with the intention of just helping people? And there's part of me that's worried about myself, worried about, oh, how can I grow this platform, or how could I make money over here or whatever? But anytime those thoughts come up, I just go, okay, I hear that. But I trust that to handle itself, that will come as a byproduct of just helping people. So I have both parts of me, one that is self interested, one that wants to help, but every step of the way, I choose the part that wants to help, because that's a win win. Other people get helped, and I get helped as a byproduct. So. And every time I indulge, even for a little bit of time, this other part, the vibes are off and things don't go as well. So it's just an. It's a no brainer. But I think for somebody starting out, it could be very easy, as I've heard you allude to on this podcast before, to kind of get worried about, like, well, how can I grow? How can I build my thing? Let that be a side effect of just giving, giving, giving as much as you can with the intention of helping.
Lou: Brilliant. Perfect answer. That was brilliant. Yeah. That was very specific and very, very helpful. Yeah. Create weekly consistent. Like, boom. That's how it worked for me. And I wish I could say I'm as consistent as I was during a time period. Um, but maybe you're you. You and another friend inspiring me to like. Okay, yeah, that's. That's part of the lever, right? That's. That's the thing. Not that it needs to be a lever for other things, but, um, that's the gift, so.
Cyrus: Totally.
Lou: Cyrus, man, this was so much fun. Any. Anything else you want to share or point people to?
Cyrus: Mmm hmm.
Cyrus: Well,
Cyrus: let me think. No, this is great.
Lou: Boom. Thanks, friends. Really appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it, and we will see you on the next episode soon.