Finding Your Guru & Being Authentic w/ Selena Lael
Selena Leal is an example of the transmission one can offer when they commit to their spiritual journey. Just listening to Selena speak is a nourishing gift for the Soul, and will help awaken you on your path. Her embodiment of love will inspire your practice, and offer guidance in your teaching.
GIFT FOR YOU
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Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Welcome everyone to the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. My name is Lou Redman, your host and today we have Selena Leal. Am I saying your last name right?
Selena: Very close. Leal. Yes.
Lou: Lael. She is a transformational. I always need to ask people before that. I'll keep this in. She is a transformational coach, experience yoga teacher, yoga nidra instructor and meditation mindfulness facilitator and has been passionately serving others through one on one sessions, retreats and workshops for over 15 years. Selena, welcome to the show.
Selena: Thank you, Lou. I'm really grateful to be here.
Lou: I'm grateful to have you. Yeah, let's dive right in. So I like to ask this question of what, when someone asks you that elusive, fun question of what do you do? How do you navigate that?
Selena: Well, it just depends on who I'm speaking with and how I'm feeling sometimes. I'll say, I'm so grateful I get to love people for a living. Love it more practically speaking, I will share that. I lead workshops and retreats and offer one on one coaching, keeping it very simple. And that's usually the way that I describe it, just keeping it very simple because I could go much more in depth and I do of course at times if people are really curious about what I'm doing and wanting to be part of it. But generally I keep it, keep it basic.
Lou: Do you feel confident when someone asks you that question to like clearly state it And I'm speaking, and I'll speak this for myself, myself, because earlier on it was almost like the imposter syndrome or fear of what other people think or how am I going to do I need to explain myself. And so yeah, I'm just, I'm curious that like maybe you're at a stage where it's like, yeah, this is what I do and I feel really solid in it.
Selena: Yeah, I am at that stage where I do feel solid in it. It's an embodiment. I'm very, very grateful and blessed to have been living this path for a long time and. But there were definitely times where it didn't feel as embodied or as natural. And I think if I can just jump ahead and just share something briefly here. If we were to go all the way back in my journey, I think something that I felt a lot and I think many people can relate to is this feeling of I know I have some kind of purpose or this feeling of I know there is something more I want to do with my life. I know there is more that I want to offer. Why Am I not there yet? And for so many years of my life, that's how I lived. It was this burning, this yearning, this feeling inside that I was, quote, unquote, supposed to be someplace other than where I was, that I was supposed to be fulfilling some life vision or purpose in a way that I wasn't. And although those were very uncomfortable years, they are the journey, they are the formative years that helped me get to where I am today. Those periods of time where I felt like I didn't have enough education or experience or insight or vision, all of that was part of what helped me grow and evolve into who I am today. And I still have periods where I feel, oh, no, I don't know enough. I have to keep learning. And that's beautiful because that helps me continue to evolve and have more to offer and to be more authentic and so on.
Lou: So take us back there. Take us back to that time of your life where you're knowing that you have more in you. What is your. What is your day like? How is that showing up? Is it like a daily, oh, my gosh, I'm meant to serve, or is it these whispers that show up that are kind of speaking to you? Yeah, what. Take us back to what's going on in your life during this time.
Selena: You know, I don't know that I have that clear of a recollection of it. I'll paint a little picture. We'll go way back. Picture me as a cashier at Whole Foods. It's a natural market for anyone who's unfamiliar with that grocery chain. I'm a cashier at Whole Foods. I'm also a massage therapist and doing energetic healing work as well. And I'm living this life where I'm spending time with my friends. I'm living in Berkeley, California, and Oakland, California. And even though I'm engaged in my life and spending time with community and I have income, there's this feeling of I want more. I know there's more. And I don't think it was something that every single day it was bearing down on me. But I think it was a silent whisper, like you said, and for me, a deep feeling of longing. And it's very interesting because on one level, we could say, okay, this longing says I'm not where I'm supposed to be. And on one level, that longing is what moved me. It drove me to continue seeking more and to develop myself more. And yet, in another way, there was nothing wrong with where I was. I might have lived with a story that something's wrong here. I should be someplace other than where I am. But it was just a story. So they both have space in my growth journey.
Lou: The beauty of paradox.
Selena: Yes.
Lou: So take us to what? That longing. Where does that longing bring you? Like, do you go to a class? Does it feel like. And I see this. I see both the work and the meant for more. Like, it's a spiritual longing that is expressed through the expression of ourselves and our gifts and how we serve in this world that is also a connector to something greater than ourselves that's in some ways thinking out loud. Like, is it a longing to. Oh, I. I don't want to be cashiering at Whole Foods. I want to be doing something else. Was it a longing of. I want to realize the God within me. Like, are you already spiritual at this time? Yeah. Maybe go a little deeper into that journey.
Selena: Or why don't we go way, way back for just a minute here?
Lou: Yeah.
Selena: So, yeah, we're going way back. I was trying. Raised a yogi kid. My parents started meditating in the San Francisco Bay area in the 70s. I was raised in an environment where I was initiated into meditation when I was five and practicing yoga asanas, and had all of these. This influence of yogic principles and philosophy and Ayurveda and all of these things growing up. So this was my lifestyle. And let's take the romanticism out of it, because I know for some, maybe they got into their yoga or spiritual journey in their 20s or 30s or maybe even their 70s, and they thought, oh, I wish. I wish I had been introduced to this as a child, because it would have been a totally different life and I would have been perfect in so many ways and made so many fewer mistakes. So let's just take the romance out of it, at least from my experience. And many of the people that I grew up with in that kind of environment shared, I was a hot mess. I was very spiritual from birth, as we all are, but I was raised in an environment that nurtured them. But I experienced so many traumas growing up, and I was a total wild child. Now I really became committed to my meditation practice when I was about 14 or 15 years old. That's when it became a daily dedicated practice for me. Before that, I probably couldn't have cared less, although it had some beautiful experiences. So I became committed to my meditation, but I was still going out with my friends, staying awake all night, doing who knows what to my sweet precious body temple, you know, so I've been in this journey of seeking. I Recognized at one point in my 20s, I was like, oh, I'm a mystic. I'm a seeker, as so many of us are and probably so many listening to this today. There's that longing for something deeper. And this, this for me even goes beyond that sense of purpose or what I'm supposed to quote, unquote, do with my life. That deep, deep longing, that remembrance that there's something more. And I wasn't raised in a religious environment, so I didn't have the maybe typical experiences of thinking about, oh, it's, it's God that I want or things like this. But there was this awareness of spirit or creator, source, God. And I knew I could feel that. That longing to merge with source. I wouldn't have used those words back then, but that deep, deep longing. So this has been my driving force throughout my life. And I'll pause for a moment and then I'll go a little deeper into that and how that really blossomed in that period of time that we were just speaking to before.
Lou: Yeah, I mean, I feel chills and that connection as you speak. So please keep going deeper.
Selena: Okay, with pleasure. Thank you. I'm so grateful to be together. It's really lovely.
Lou: Yeah, this is beautiful. And I'm sure, like, I think what's cool about this and in the work that we do too, when we're sharing our voices or we're on video here as well. However, the and I want to presence this for anyone who's doing this work is always the felt sense of your energy is so much your gift. It's so much what is actually being felt by other people. So I'm sure as you're listening to Selena, as I am, it's almost therapeutic. You can always almost feel that connection in ourself. And so, I mean, a big thing I always tell people early on in this work is that your own self work and your own awakening is your gift. Right. And so I'm sure not the only one here that can feel Selena and her own work just coming through and just you speaking. Right. It's not even about what you're speaking about. It's where you're speaking from, like where you're speaking from. So I'll leave it at that.
Selena: Yes, yes, yes. That was definitely something that I was feeling coming into this conversation today. And I'll highlight it a little bit more as I go a little deeper in my share here. A little side note though, I was speaking with my wonderful papa yesterday, who is an amazing human and teacher and everything that he Is. And he was sharing about this a piece that he had been reading. It was an article where studies had been done on therapists and people who hold space in that kind of coaching or therapy environment. And the. The takeaway from these studies was that it was the people who felt most transformed by their relationship with their therapist or their coach or whoever it was in this context, they felt most transformed not by the tools and the techniques and the education of that person, but by the connection that they felt with them. So absolutely. I mean, this is something that, that I think is the most important journey for anyone listening to this. Be authentic. Be authentic. And I know sometimes when we're in the beginning of the journey or even later on in the journey and that imposter syndrome comes up and we say, well, who am I to be offer this or how should I do this? It's okay, just keep dropping into you. Just keep coming back home to you. Make. Make your journey of service and success in the world. Start with how deep you can go with yourself and that will grow you, blossom you, evolve you into the most beautiful teacher, facilitator, coach, person that you can be in the world.
Lou: So if I'm listening, I might ask. Well, and I'm going to come back to your story here in a bit. I know this is a broad question, but how does one be more authentic?
Selena: What a great question. It's so good. Okay, well, I'll share. I'll share my journey of what that is being more authentic. I actually. Can I share a little paragraph, a short paragraph that I wrote on something on the journey of awakening.
Lou: I would love it because as you get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you get it going. I'll just kind of re. Emphasize what Selena just stated in that your presence in that relationship of actually allowing others to feel safe is so, so foundational to that. Like that cannot be overstated. And that doesn't mean that you don't go and learn your tools and do your education. It's just not letting those things, not letting those things get in the way or not letting your self worth be dependent on something that is external from you because you're always going to be chasing it through external when it's really the impact that you're making is by clearing out and feeling at home in what is internal.
Selena: So this is a piece that I wrote for a. I wrote it for a course I was creating, but it just says it's a great standalone. The course was called Awakened Woman. So it's really a quote on what does it mean to live an awakened life. And if. If those, you know, if anyone listening doesn't resonate with words like awakening or soul or anything like this, I invite us to leave those words behind and just take the nuggets from this paragraph that resonate with you. An awakened life means to feel fully. And the reason I'm reading this is to answer Lou's question about how can we be more authentic? An awakened life means to feel fully, to embody the self, to think with your heart and love with your mind. An awakened life means pulling up the carpet, taking the skeletons out of the closet, and freeing yourself from all of the lies between you and authenticity, even the white lies that you think are there to protect others. All of this must stop. The time of pretend inauthenticity, plain, small, must come to an end. And we must face it all, not with judgment, disdain, pity, or disgust, but with an open mind and an open heart, A soul who welcomes all parts of this fragile, precious human incarnation.
Selena: So for me, authenticity is about knowing who I am beyond the identification with the mind, emotions, and the body, which are all temporary experiences. Authenticity means looking at all of the masks that I wear, the mask that says, look, I'm a nice person, I'm a spiritual person, I'm a happy person, I'm a deep person, I'm a funny person, I'm a strong person. All of these masks that I wear in the world. Now, it's not to say that some of those qualities aren't authentic to who I am, but we often wear an overlay of a mask over those things, trying to experience feeling accepted or worthy or like we have a place in the world. So start to become of all of the places, all of the ways that we're not being true to ourselves, that we're not being fully honest, that we don't go deep enough and really say, how do I really feel? What are the thoughts that I'm holding that are not in alignment with my beliefs? Or what are the beliefs that I'm holding that are not in alignment with my current ways of thinking or my vision for my life. Authenticity means getting naked, just really, just showing it all. And not. It's not about even other people. It starts with me. If I can't be naked with myself, meaning no masks, no covering things up, no hiding things from myself, trying to be good enough. If I can't be naked with myself, then. Then I'm not able to fully be who I am in the world, rather than allowing that light that I am, that each of us are to be expressed. I'm concerned about, well, what if they don't like me? And what if it's not good enough? And what if I don't have enough? And all of this being said, I think all of those thoughts and feelings are a total natural part of the process. And I have felt so much insecurity in my life, and I still feel moments of insecurity in my life. So it's not to say we have to be some perfect, raw, open, vulnerable person all of the time. It's just an invitation to come back to that again and again. Okay. How can I drop into some honesty in this moment? How can I take a little bit of time today to go deeper within myself?
Lou: So beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing that. And if you're not feeling insecurity at some part of your journey or facing it in different ways at different stages for different things, I would consider that a place of caution, actually. Those people might actually, maybe I wouldn't want to learn from them because there's a whole list of maybe pathology that that might be coming from. So take us back to your 15 or 14. Starting a meditation practice and where. Yeah, put us back to your journey in a place of. Of where that longing took you and how you've made the shift from, okay, now I'm at Whole Foods to now I'm going to step out into a different world.
Selena: Okay.
Lou: Not to say that they have to happen, like, very separately.
Selena: It's all one baby, right? It's all connected, all of the layers of the journey. And that's, I think, something really important to remember. I think sometimes we feel like, oh, this part of my journey is so bad. I just don't want it to be part of my journey. I think one thing for me that has helped me be authentic, helped me to be who I am today, helped me grow one of the. It's not. It's not like a light thing. It was something that's really deeply served me. It's that. That teaching that says life is happening for me, not to me. Rather than looking at some parts of my life saying, this is something to reject, being able to say, okay, how can I learn from this? How has this made me more raw, more vulnerable, more this, more that. What have I learned from this experience? And we're not always able to do that real time. Right? Like, sometimes it takes time to grieve and heal, and maybe it takes years even, but to always circle back and say, okay, how can I practice seeing this as something that served Me in some way, maybe even a gift in my life. And if that doesn't resonate for you, no issue, leave it. So I am 18, I'm living in the city that's an hour away from where I grew up. And I am just like in the thick of my wild years, you know, I'm living out of my parents house and now I can go out partying with my friends every night. Even though I have a job, I don't know how people do those kinds of things. And I'm still meditating twice a day, even though I'm on, you know, low, low fuel. Oh yeah. Super committed to my spiritual practices and really out there getting wild. And my beautiful mom, who's my first guru with my dad, says, she says to me for my birthday, I want to pay for you to come to this workshop that's happening with this female saint, this woman saint that's coming through town. And that is when I met my spiritual teacher, who I've been studying with for 22 years. And that, that relationship with my beloved teacher, her Holiness Saima, the journeys that I've gone through, that is, I don't even have the language for it. That has been my guiding light, my primary role model, and my invitation deeper into the teachings of what love truly is, what humility truly is, what surrender truly is. All of these profound teachings that when we think of them as words, they don't really make much sense. They have, they have been an embodiment for me. So I met Saima at that weekend workshop and, and my heart just melted in a way that I didn't even know it could. I grew up in a very loving family, totally dysfunctional, but very loving. And when I was with Ma that first time, something happened in my heart, something was touched in my being that I didn't know was possible. So, so this brings me to something that I think is really important for anyone listening who's in the journey, who's wanting to be more authentic, be more successful, all of the things that this podcast is about. Study with masters, keep learning, keep growing. Find the teachers who open your mind and open your heart, who uplift you spiritually, who challenge you. Ooh, this is a good one. So many of us love to go places where it's just comfortable. It's like, oh, I feel so loved and supported. That's great, we need that. But also, I invite you to go places where you're challenged, because as we know at this point in our world, when we get challenged, that's when growth really happens. That's when we're forced to create new synaptic connections in the brain. That's when big shifts really start to happen within us. So find your teachers and stay true to your studies. Keep evolving, keep learning. If you're in that imposter syndrome, no issue. We all start someplace. Go find someone who can enrich your life, who can support you.
Lou: So I have such a big question on this because I tend to be of the nature of following different teachers or getting really excited about this one teacher or this one lineage or this one tradition, and then jumping to this next teacher, then jumping back here and then circling around. And I think for me personally, and I still, I guess I feel a longing for that experience that you had, that longing for. I'm actually in person with someone and I have that. You know, Ram Dass would always talk about it with his guru, like have that experience of just melting in love. And it's like I would. So there's such a part of me that longs for that, that longs that to put my path in this one area and then the student is ready, teacher appears, type of thing where it's like it just hasn't. And I'm saying this, I have many different teachers and teachers that I don't have never met. And I continue to learn in that way. So there's always that. And I feel a longing for what you're stating. And so I'm imagining I'm not the only one that might be listening that has this kind of. Well, you can't force a teacher. But should someone start seeking an actual in person, someone who's a living embodiment of it, what would you suggest? It sounds like you kind of are suggesting to seek in that way, but it also sounds like for you, that was brought to you. Were you looking for your guru? It was brought to you. So it seemed like that alignment in the universe. And so how do you think about. For someone who's maybe wanting that but doesn't know what they should do or if they should do. And I'm even asking for myself, should I be like, I'm going to go to everything and see if I can put myself in the way of that? Or. Yeah, I'll pause there.
Selena: I'm going to drop in a little deeper.
Lou: Yeah, take your time.
Selena: Thank you.
Selena: I really want to make sure I'm answering from the heart here rather than the mind because the mind has preconceived ideas and the heart speaks from a different place of wisdom.
Selena: Well, first of all, I Just want to acknowledge you and anyone who is having that experience of longing for their teacher or that place where they get to feel that.
Selena: I just really wish to acknowledge that journey and that deep, deep longing. And
Selena: I feel it's also valuable or important to say that that longing, I believe that that longing is about merging with our own beloved self, awakening to our own beloved self. And the mind will fixate on how it thinks that can happen. You know, maybe there's someone who has a certain type of religious practice and they think, oh, well, if I just do this enough, or if I just find the right church or temple or something like this, you know, that I'll just. I'll finally get to feel that freedom, or if I just find the right guru or spiritual teacher, I'll finally get to feel that freedom. And, and this is also a topic that I can't even speak on because my intellect can't even begin to comprehend the nature of grace. The nature of grace is beyond the mind. And my beloved teacher, Saima in my life is the greatest grace and gift of my life. And it's not something I can share, a, you know, a linear path. And so I would first, just like again, to acknowledge the longing, that longing to come home, that longing to feel the deep peace of presence and love. And that is already within each of us. It's who we are. So one question that I have right now is how much of the story that we carry that we just need to find the right teacher or guru is just a story of the mind distracting us from the grace, the presence, the enlightened beings that we already are. And like I was sharing earlier, how much of that longing is 100% just part of our path and the journey that drives us or guides us toward the teacher who's going to serve us so deeply in our lives. So that's the first thing I'd like to say on that. This is not going to be a linear answer because I don't think it's something that we can really answer in that way. Another really powerful teaching that I've learned over the years is it's. It's sometimes referred to as not to guru shop. So what many of us will do is we'll find a teacher. I can't speak to this personally because I didn't. This isn't my journey this lifetime. You know, I. I was raised with beautiful teachers and a couple of gurus in my life. And then I happened to meet my guru, happened to, you know, quote unquote, so I can't speak to this, but I can share what I've learned around it. Let's say that you find a teacher and at first you feel enamored or you really resonate with them, or you feel like you're going deep. And then all of a sudden, maybe you get a little triggered. Maybe you start to feel uncomfortable. Maybe your mind says, you know what? I'm not sure this teacher is really, for me. They kind of do this funny thing with their face, and they said that thing that one time. And so what do we do? We say, I'm out, and we go and look for another teacher. And we do this. We shop around for teachers. We go from one to the next to the next. Now, sometimes maybe this is happening because we truly haven't felt the resonance. And sometimes it's happening because the ego does not like the master. The ego does not like the guru. So when the ego is confronting that place of having to surrender, it's like, how do I get out of here as fast as possible. So it starts judging. It starts looking for reasons to leave. It starts figuring out a story to tell you so that you don't have to go deeper. So that awareness as well. Guru shopping is an awareness. Teacher shopping. I'll pause there for a moment, hear anything you want to say on that.
Lou: So you're with Saima. You find your guru and start growing. 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Is it? I know in some lineages, a guru will give you permission to teach the. The language of a meditation teacher. In many ways, I see it as. I did an episode on this podcast about this. From what I understand, traditionally it was like you studied under a teacher, and at some point, that teacher recognized your own realization and gave you kind of permission. It's not that you got a certification, but they gave you permission to go ahead and. Okay, now you can go ahead and teach others because you have realized this in yourself. And quote, unquote, you wear that label of a teacher. Was that what it was like with Sai Ma? Or were you constricted to, like, waiting to. Or did you start teaching yoga and like, yeah, I'm curious on. On. On that whole kind of evolution.
Selena: Great question. Well, first of all, I'd just like to acknowledge that one thing Saima has always said to us is, yes, feel free. Go. Go learn from other teachers or visit other teachers. Go bless other teachers with your love. You know, go receive their blessings. Just don't get confused in the guru shopping aspect of it. And Ma is also saying, if I'M not the teacher for you. Please go find the teacher that works for you. Like, there's no ownership. There's no trying to keep anyone in any certain way. It's saying, go to the place that honors you and be dedicated and committed to yourself. For example, I've had the grace of also having another beloved guru in my life since I was 10, Amma Ammaji. And many, often people know Amma referred to as a hugging saint. Amma's hugged millions or even billions of people around the world for decades. And every time there's an opportunity to go be with the community, with Amma, or to go to an event where Amma is, I go and I'm so grateful and I get to be in that beautiful energy and I'm so grateful to Amma. I'mma so dear to my heart. So there's no sense of ownership or not being able to be in that grace or that love. I'm just very clear on an energetic level who my primary teacher is. And that's about me and my relationship with me. It's not about anyone trying to take ownership of me. It's about me and my dedication and focus and commitment to my path so that I'm not wishy washy. Because that's what it's about. It's not about, oh, you have to choose one teacher and be their student, be their disciple. It's like, no, what energy do I feed when I'm teacher shopping? Am I feeding indecisiveness, doubt, uncertainty? Not being true to myself, not being committed to myself? Yes. And of course, all of these things are an evolution. They're a journey. It might take you months or even years of exploring this within yourself to come to that place where you feel more clear and embodied. I just really want to name that again because I know sometimes we hear someone's end result of an experience and think it should be that way. But there's always the journey to get there. So coming back to your question, which was you were talking about my evolution of being with Saima, what was the question? Love? Forgive me.
Lou: The teacher, like when you started, like doing yoga. Teaching yoga? Yeah.
Selena: Yes. So no, that, that's not part of the lineage of the teachings with Ma. Ma has always encouraged us to go, share the light, be the light, share different techniques with us to serve. One of the primary, primary teachings in Ma's lineage and who Ma is in the world is all about seva, selfless service. So serve, serve, serve. And I mean, there have been some experiences that I'VE had with MA of being initiated deeper into my own spiritual journey or being initiated to offer certain, certain experiences with others. But overall, it's been a very open, open opportunity to just serve, serve, serve, uplift, humanity.
Lou: There's so many places I keep wanting to go with this because I'm so interested in that guru experience. And I've been following on and off for years. I've been studying, I have his lessons. I'm not a good student, I guess, because I don't go through them each week. But Paramahansa Yogananda and I had a beautiful experience at his meditation garden, Encinitas, early on in my journey. And as I'm speaking this, there's a part of me that's like, actually, no, that was grace in that moment to be there, have that experience and have I felt that, like seeing him and that love that you express of, like, melting, like, have I had that experience? And if I'm being honest with myself, I don't feel like I have. And so would you say to someone who's following someone who hasn't had that experience, like, is that, is that the signpost? And obviously you're not the ultimate rule book on this. It's your experience, and so you only know your experience. But would you say that that's, if you don't have, that maybe to continue to seek and look for that? Or is that almost. Are you getting in your own way because you're wanting that and kind of answered this before, but.
Selena: The joys of these questions that just, just can't be answered in one way?
Lou: Yes. Yeah.
Selena: Well, I think so. For anyone who's unfamiliar with Paramahansa Yogananda, Yogananda Ji is not in the body anymore. So for some people, they can have an experience with an ascended master who's no longer on the planet and feel them like they are here or even have experiences of them being here. So I don't think it's limited to the physical body. However, I have also heard that there again, I can only speak from my experience and also what I've learned or seen in my, in my life. But to be with a living Master, there is a whole other level of experience that one might have to be with a master who's in the body. And we learn different things from different teachers. That's why this isn't black and white. There's no one answer. Even when we come back to the topic of guru or teacher shopping, yes, we learn different things. So maybe it's, maybe it's about choosing what you want to be true to in yourself. Maybe sadhana, for example. Sadhana is a Sanskrit word that means essentially daily spiritual practice. Yes. So what is in your sadhana? What are you being committed to within your being, to your soul, to your light, to your presence, or to source or God, or any way that you experience a higher power, maybe in your life? Firstly, be committed to you. Be committed to your spiritual journey. If you have a teacher, like in your case, it sounds like you have this connection to Paramahansa Yogananda. How can you feed that connection without beating yourself up? Right? Because so many of us do that. We're like, oh, I haven't been studying regularly. I'm a bad student.
Lou: Right?
Selena: But that's just part of the journey. So how can you feed that relationship with those teachings, with that master? And then if you feel like there's something more, listen to that intuition. Let yourself be open to that. Okay, I acknowledge that. I feel there's something more. And I feel that when we open ourselves in that way, like you quoted that, that teaching, you know, when the student is ready, the master will appear. I feel that if you are true to yourself and just continue in your journey, and you consciously meaning rather than just kind of saying, well, I guess we'll see what happens. But if you consciously say, I open myself to receive the gifts of my light, I open myself to receive the gifts or the guidance from another teacher, I open myself to come across a teacher in my path who opens my heart and my mind beyond what I can imagine. When we consciously open ourselves to that, I feel we will experience that we will have an experience. We will be drawn to something. You know, your intuition will say, you should check out that bulletin board. Or it will say, you should go to this thing that this teacher is offering. And even if that teacher isn't the one, so to speak, maybe it guides you deeper into something, right? And we can use that teaching in our whole lives about how we can follow our intuition. So I would say, let yourself be open. Drop the rigidity of thinking that you have to be a certain way or that your path needs to look a certain way. And the last thing I'll say on that is that, yes, there's beautiful spiritual wisdom in this, and there's a power of grace in this. And we can also bring this into the realm of neuroscience and understanding the brain. When we open ourselves like this, when we have conscious thoughts like this, when we start to feel those beautiful, deeper feelings inside of connection and longing for more, it actually starts to change what's happening in the brain. And it will help to bring that experience to. To us and help our brains to consciously seek it out, even if our conscious minds have no idea what steps to take. Your brain and your energetic systems are working together for you to create or you could say, attract what you're wanting.
Lou: So thank you for that. I feel like I'm receiving so much from this conversation already, so I'm sure that that's being received out there. You talked about ego. You talked about the ego not liking or wanting certain things. And as a young, I'll genderfy it male who quit a job at 25 years old with this, like, you know, spiritual, mystical experience, you know, I recognized there was a lot of ego in, you know, a messiah complex at some point. And so I've had to, like, I've had to look at that with a. With a compassion and an understanding of, like, I just didn't know any better. And I had no reference point for what was happening. And I say this, and it sounds like I pretended to be Jesus. It wasn't quite like that, but I could see how ego so quickly jumps in and how ego for someone who has admittedly has this ego, I notice that resistance to surrendering to another person, to really having that humility to surrender to another person. So I asked this question more so in where do you see people tripping up in this journey? And I'm imagining it can point to the classic ways people trip up in this journey. Power, sex, money, all of those kind of ego sort of things. Not that all of that is ego, but. Yeah, I mean, in where this conversation has gone, I'm would love to hear your thoughts on. On. On the trappings potentially, of someone walking this journey, how ego can overcome them. Wherever you want to take that.
Selena: Yeah, we could sit here for the next 10 hours talking about that.
Lou: Yes.
Selena: Well, I'd love to speak briefly. I know we're short on time. I'd love to speak briefly to something you. Your personal share. I love hearing about you. I feel like I'm hearing my voice a lot today, but I know that's what this podcast is about. But I look forward to hearing more about you as well. This messiah complex where we have some kind of profound spiritual experience and maybe we start to live what we think is a more spiritual life and we can get caught. So the first thing I'd like to acknowledge is spiritual arrogance and how widespread it is and how absolutely common it is to find in spiritual communities, whether we're talking about religious communities or spiritual communities. Spiritual arrogance is very present. And I'll just share really briefly because I know I'm like the. The Golden Goddess up here, right? Just sharing about how here I am today. Right. So there was a period of time, you know, I've been studying the Saima for 22 years. That's a long time to be in a journey of self development and growth and awakening and getting really humbled again and again. And all of Saima's teachings are really rooted in love, pure love. We're not talking about conditional real love, pure, infinite and bounded love. Knowing that we are this love and being here to serve each other on the planet. This is really the heart of the teachings and the embodiment of love. That MA is who each of us really are. But MA is expressing that fully on the planet is so much of the way MA teaches just with like, this unending love that will make you just start pouring tears just being in Saima's presence. And MA will also bring the fire, because sometimes when we're in that comfort zone of, oh, oh, look, I'm so loved, I'm so loved, we don't wake up. We're not, we're not. There's not that friction there to help us grow. So here I am. I had. It was my. My first, this lifetime, profound spiritual awakening experience. I mean, I really had a taste of enlightenment. Everything I was looking at after I had this total, like, cracking open was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. I looked at the fluorescent lights and I was like, tears of love were pouring down. I looked at the middle chair on the stage, and tears are pouring from my love for this chair that I was looking at. I mean, I really had that God experience of we are all one. And shortly after that, I received a special name from Saima. And the name was essentially Saima's name. And we're talking about, like, there are different names you can receive in Sanskrit. And I basically received the name of my teacher from my teacher. So you want to talk about spiritual arrogance. And without going into all of the details, because I know we don't have time for it today, let's just say I went through a whole period years. I didn't legally change my name, but I changed my name. No one called me by Selena anymore. Everyone called me by my given name. And I was, like, owning it. It wasn't. It was just who I was in the world. And. And there was so much. And this is where I think it's really good for Anyone who can relate to either of our stories. There was such an unconscious and at times conscious pressure that I put on myself to be a quote unquote, spiritual person. And often when we have that kind of internalized pressure, that's when spiritual arrogance gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Because the root of arrogance is fear. The root of arrogance is insecurity. It's that. That fear of being hurt or not being good enough. And so we have to bolster ourselves up. So I was in this period where the arrogance that was already in me was really magnified. And now it was in this context of being a spiritual person and how I had to be this spiritual person. And I didn't really know it, but in retrospect, in all the things I've experienced since, I was really in a lot of spiritual arrogance. That was rooted in the pressure I was putting on myself for who I thought I needed to be after that spiritual awakening. So I went through years of this experience of being this person who was very spiritual. And I had this name. And then Ma took the name away.
Selena: Oh, my goodness. And within the same six months period that Saima said, you are no longer to go by this name. You are to go back to your birth name. Within the same six months that I received that I also. And this was like just a cosmic joke. Saima had a couple of primary teachings at the time that Ma would say to everybody, go share this with everyone. Just give it for free. Do it all the time. Share your light. Share your light. So at the same time time that the same period where I had the name taken away, I also received a message saying, you are no longer to offer these teachings to anyone. The teachings that Ma was saying to every single person, to offer freely at will, no matter what. Right? It was like this cosmic joke, you know, like triggering me, getting the ego to be so flared up that I could wake up to be so humbled out of my spiritual arrogance that I could come back to the heart, that I could learn to be humble, that I could learn to be vulnerable, that I could learn to be a human being. Not higher than or better than anyone, not lower than anyone, but right here, one with everyone. If you find yourself, and I'm speaking to everyone here, not. Not specifically to you, Lou, if you find yourself in judgments about thinking that you're better than anyone else because of your life experience or your spiritual practices or your teachers or anything, then you are in. I would say humbly, you are in a level of spiritual arrogance. When you can look at the houseless person, at the person on drugs, at the person who is a greedy billionaire. When you can look at every single human, human being on this planet and access and experience of love within your being, you are tuned into the grace of life. This doesn't mean that we don't be discerning. This doesn't mean that we have everyone in our lives. This doesn't mean that we don't uphold, hold our boundaries. This doesn't mean that we don't take a stand for what we believe in in the world and to help to re rewrite and justice or to realign this planet. It doesn't mean that we don't stop. It doesn't mean we stop doing those things. But it means that if we are judging anyone, we are in ego. And the last thing I want to say on this, Lou, because I feel this is just so tender and so special and important. I don't know. Special is not the word, but important. The teachings that I come from, Ego is not a bad guy. Ego is not something to be annihilated, to be killed, to be gotten rid of. The ego is this part of our consciousness, one that allows us to have our human experience, but it's just a part of the consciousness. It's rooted in fear and contraction. So our job is not to annihilate the ego or to get rid of the ego. It is to, I love this, enlighten the ego, to pour light into the ego, to pour compassion and love into the ego. To bring the qualities of divine love and grace into the ego so the ego may be transformed. And the light we are, or the consciousness that we are, that purity of being that we are, however you like to think of it, that begins to live through the ego. Rather than the ego kind of dragging us around like a puppy on a leash, we enlighten the ego with the grace of love so that we live that love in our lives.
Lou: Selena, I feel like this is just such a powerful teaching. I feel like you're offering us a lot of teachings today and I think that's so valuable and I'm so grateful for you and showing up and being here. I know we didn't get too much to the business, the practical. And I think that wasn't what was meant to come through here today too, because you talked about beforehand not having a lot of practical and the way that I'm experiencing this too. And I know that when I've experienced that connection to something greater, the connection to God, to source, to spirit, the other stuff tends to start to take care of itself, the other, you know, what you're supposed to be doing, how you're supposed to be doing it. If it's meant for you, if it's aligned for you, it tends to not have to be forced or pushed. At least that's how I've experienced different things in my life. So at the essence, what I'm hearing from you is really is such a deeper and important message of, of that connection, of that divine connection. And whether it's through our own study, whether it's through our guru, whether it's through the love and the light heartedness that we have on our ego and recognizing it, that sounds like such a cutting off to be taken away. Your name. Look at me, I'm this spiritual Sanskrit name. And then, oh my gosh, I'm just, I'm feeling that in my body of like, oh, that must have been such a disorienting crumble. Oh man. Is there anything like that you wanted to share with anyone listening that you might, that could be helpful that maybe I didn't prompt or cue specifically? I mean, I have a couple more minutes, so don't feel like we have to rush out. I don't know how your time is, but is there anything else that, that you feel like you wanted to speak or share into this and then you know, obviously where people can, can get more of your loving energy after that.
Selena: Thank you. Well, maybe just recap a few things. Be compassionate with yourself. If you feel like you're not where you're supposed to be, remember that that is part of your journey of getting to where you want to be. Find teachers to study with, keep growing and be really committed to you first. Be committed to your spiritual development, be committed to your skills with yourself and that will allow you to be a better teacher. I think one of the reasons that, I mean I've definitely gone through many different trainings and I have different certifications and things like this, but I've been so dedicated to my own development and freedom from suffering that, that I think is probably the thing that makes me the teacher that I am today. For anyone who experiences me as a quote, unquote, good teacher, I think it starts there, my dedication to my own development and freedom because then I become an embody it. So embody what you want to teach. Practice embodying what you want to teach. Be dedicated to that in yourself and be patient. Be patient with yourself. I think I, I uploaded my first meditation ever on Insight Timer five years ago and it takes time and even back then There was actually more of an advantage because five years ago, there was a different setup. So you could. I remember one time I had 10,000 listens to a new track overnight, 24 hours, 10,000 listens. Now with the setup, you know, maybe like 24. Yeah, the good old days, right? So be patient with yourself. Be patient and just keep staying true to your inner work and keep staying true to your vision of what you want to create. If you're creating content or if you're offering workshops, just keep going, Keep going. Maybe you have another job for the first 10 years that you're doing this, it's okay. It doesn't mean you're failing. And by the way, failure is one of the most important parts of succeeding. Yes. So just keep going, keep going, keep creating, and keep staying true to you. I think those are the two most valuable things I could offer.
Lou: Amen to that. Selena, where can people be in your world? How do they find you? What do you got going on? I think I saw you had a retreat happening. Did that happen already or do you have another retreat happening?
Selena: Yes, yes. So right now, I put my retreats on hold this year for other things that were happening, but now I'm opening that back up. So I may have a retreat at the end of 2023, but I'm definitely looking at some destinations for 2024, probably at least one or two in Costa Rica, maybe some other places, maybe in Hawaii, again, possibly Bali. So you can find out about my retreats if you'd like to work together deeper on your. Your journey, one on one. I offer that as well. I also offer workshops and a lot of free online content. You can find me on the Insight Timer app. I'm on another app called Wellness Coach Live. Quite a few apps out there, but those are the two primary ones. And I'm also getting ready to start offering a membership. So that'll be a beautiful way to stay tuned in regularly. And you can find all of this and more on my website, selenale.com and.
Lou: All that will be linked in the show. Notes for everyone. So, Selena, deep vows and honor and reverence for you and your work and the light that you bring and what you embody. It's really felt and it's literally been such a gift to be in the space and have you on and to have your energy move through something that I'm passionate about creating just feels like so good. So thank you so much.
Selena: Thank you, Lou. Thank you for the light. You are in the world. All you share with us. You are such a gift and it feels really nourishing and beautiful to get to have such a vulnerable, real conversation and to be able to share that with all of your listeners. All of you know, we're all, all in this journey together. Our journeys may look very, very, very different, but we're here. We're all having this human experience together. So thanks for creating such a really beautiful, open, authentic space for us to explore together. And just for everything you offer in the world, I'm very grateful.
Lou: Thanks, Alina. Yeah, well, take care, friends.