Avoiding The Trap of Spiritual Materialism w/ Prashanti Paz
This is a must-listen for anyone who considers themselves on a spiritual journey. We explore the concept of Spiritual Materialism and the pitfalls one can fall into on the path. We explore how to balance a business mindset with spiritual authenticity. We also talk about the changes of Insight Timer, and how one may want to approach the app. Prashanti is a special Soul. Just by listening, you will feel her transmission come through.
GIFT FOR YOU
If you’re a meditation teacher or coach who wants to create unique meditations people listen to over and over again, enroll in my free course Meditation Script Mastery
Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. Welcome to another interview episode of the art and Business of Meditation podcast. This one is going to be, I think you can close your eyes and lay down to this one and you might. You might float up to the sky, because I just have a sense that this is going to be a really powerful plot, potent opportunity to chant with Prashanti Paz, who is a recording artist, meditation guide, writer, certified astrologer, who is known for her soulful voice. Soulful voice and profound teachings. With 24 plus years of devoted training and practice in Buddhism and eastern philosophy, she shares mantra meditation and astrology with a genuine and practical approach. Prashanti, welcome to the show.
Lou: Thank you so much. I feel. Yeah. Such joy to be here in gratitude. Thank you for having me.
Prashanti: Yeah. So your journey is fascinating to me. So I'm assuming it'll be fascinating to other people, and I'll just color in what, what I understand and let you kind of speak whatever is relevant to you, but. So you go to film school and you encounter Buddhism while working on the film. Seven years in Tibet, which is really cool. And then a few years later, you end up studying with the Dalai Lama and so coloring in maybe anything that you feel is relevant to that journey. And then obviously, eventually really stepping full into your heart's work and sharing the work that you're doing now. So, yeah, anything relevant that you feel you want to share on it.
Prashanti: Okay. Yeah.
Lou: And it's all relevant, of course, or not.
Prashanti: It's all relative.
Lou: Yeah.
Prashanti: Yeah. So, yeah. Thank you for the introduction. I didn't study, like, directly with his holiness at Dalai Lama. Just want to clarify that is that he went, like, in two opportunities to Argentina, where I'm from. So maybe I just say to introduce myself, I'm from Argentina. I was born south of Argentina in Patagonia, and I now am based in the Netherlands, in the Hague. And while I was in Argentina, when I started my buddhist path journey after seven years in Tibet, I met twice with his Holiness, the Dalai Lama. And I was very involved with the dharma center in Argentina. So I had the privilege to being the small group serving him, like, you know, and just being really close in contact. But it's not like, of course, I received a group teaching. So, yeah, it started, like, exactly like you said. I was, I think, the beginning of my journey, what really marks what, you know, since. Since I was very little, I always was asking these questions. Not very natural for a seven, eight year old. Like, why am I here? Why are we here? You know, I always had this tendency to drive myself nuts, I guess, and complicate my own life. And really it was just these. Yeah. Like, what is the meaning? You know? I had this amazing grandma and she, my mother's family is Christian and she taught me how to pray. And so, yeah, maybe I'm going back to even more.
Lou: Like, it's beautiful.
Prashanti: I'm a little bit random when I speak. Sorry. So, yeah, I'm just flowing in that direction. Because she was a singer, actually, but she only sang in church, and I went to church with her because I was the only one. My mom was, like, atheist and also my father. And they didn't want us to go into any spiritual path until we are adults, like, and we can decide for ourselves. But I was, I always felt this pull, you know, towards, like, prayer and God and, you know, these things. But I feel like this kind of, like it was in my childhood. But what was the main thing, why I started searching was when my mom passed and I was studying in New York and I was, I already went to university and I already was, had this experience working on seven years in Tibet. And I always say that I went because of Brad Pitt, but, but what really caught and just stick my heart was Buddhism. And all of these monks and Rinpoches and Jetsumpema, his Holiness sister, was there playing the mother, and he was just living in this environment. And I remember when I first saw a monk, a bunch of them, they were doing extras, you know, like part of the cast. It was so funny. And they came on a bus and they were all laughing. And I'm like, why are they so happy? You know, are they high? What's going on? What's, what's, you know, I want to smile like that and just felt that joy. So the seed was planted there. Then I went to New York to take some intensive, you know, training in, in screenwriting. That's what I do also. I'm a screenwriter. And boom, my mom passes unexpectedly. And so when I returned to Argentina, it was a big shock for me. And it was something, it was like really this darshan of death. Like the first teaching of, wow,
Prashanti: why? And all of these questions. And I didn't feel like, I didn't felt at the time that Christianity or, you know, so I recall Buddhism, and I already had a book. And so that's how it started. And I started going to a buddhist center and first meditation, and then the practices of, you know, Tibetan Buddhism is bhajrayana. So it's tantric practices always involving mantra. So that's when I started actually, you know, not chanting, but reciting mantras because they don't sing the mantras like I do now. So, yeah, that's how it all started.
Lou: I love your story with your grandma. And even just, like, receiving that from her and. And how that, you know, even maybe something that you couldn't understand at the time, or I'm imagining, like, how that, you know, I'm assuming maybe I'm projecting my own experience with one of my grandparents, but, you know, do you, when you think of your grandma now, like, what's that? What's that felt sense of, like, that connection.
Prashanti: It's amazing. She's. I just feel the goosebumps again. She's, like, on my shrine, and I just feel she was my first guru and just the power that she had. She suffered a lot in her life. She lost two children, the husband. It was just so much suffering. And still there was this composture and this strength coming from her practice. And I would see her every single day, always the same time, 06:00 p.m. no matter what happens. She used to sit in a very dignified posture in her bed when she was visiting us, and she will pray the rosary, and she was like. And there was just this feeling of peace around her, and it was very powerful. So, yeah, I think also the singing, once I asked, you have such a beautiful voice. And she said, yeah, but I only sing to God. Like, that's reserved. It was back in those days where if you were grieving, you don't sing, like. So she reserved the singing, the beauty of her soprano voice to God as an offering, and that, I think that was like, wow.
Lou: Knowing what you do now. Yes, that's incredible. And, you know, I have a really special spiritual connection to my grandpa who passed when I was seven years old. And so, yeah, there's something like sensing into that, which is really special, to still have these people living with us and informing some of the things that we're doing now. And so were you speaking of singing? Was that part of what you always did as a singer, or did this come from just starting the spiritual and being like, wow, I actually, like, love singing mantras, and it, you know. Yeah, I just. It's. It's fascinating to me because I am a. I love singing, too, and I don't. It's not necessarily. Yeah, I don't do singing mantras necessarily. Maybe it's. Maybe it's a thing to come. Who knows? But, yeah, I'd love to hear just where the singing piece comes in.
Prashanti: So, yeah, music was like, bit like a forbidden thing at home because my father, who left when I was, like, six months old, and I actually never met him again until I was, like, 20 years old. So my stepfather, which I called my father, he already passed also. But it was like I had this inclination to music, but because my biological father was a musician, it was like. No, like, I felt there was a little bit of a taboo around music interest. Like, it was almost like a bad word. And I loved singing, but I sang like any other teenager, like Madonna. And I'm giving away my age. I was the eighties, so, you know, Cindy Laupert, things like that, and all kinds of music. I loved singing, but no, the practice, chanting mantras came in a very spontaneous way. But just only seven years ago, can you believe? So it was in 2017, and I started the practice in 2001. So it was 16 years later than that. I started chanting mantras.
Lou: Wow.
Prashanti: Yeah.
Lou: And so when are you like, whoa, this is on. This is taking off on its own, right? This I'm imagining. It sounds, like following that, it's like, took a life of its own. And now, you know, now you're filling out falls and whatnot. So, like, what, where. What starts unfolding and when do you leave? I mean, it sounds like you're still doing screenwriting. Like, was there. Yeah, like, was there a jump into. Okay, I'm going to follow this thread into this and see where it goes.
Prashanti: Absolutely not. So there was not a conscious decision. I was, yes, indeed, working as a casting director for many years, ten years. Then I started working as a screenwriting, a writer, finally. And at the time, I started chanting when the click happened. I was working for a tv series, and I was very unhappy with that. But I had a solid practice, like, every single day. Mantras were part of my practice, and I already loved Krishna Das and Snathamkaor. I don't know how you say in English, deva Prima. So I listened to devotional music and I loved it, but I never thought, like, oh, now I'm going to. No, not at all. What happened is one day I was sitting and I had this experience of literally, it sounds a bit crazy, but I had this. I just felt, and it might sound a little bit cuckoo, but I heard kind of like, we want for you to sing to us. Like, this is your offering. And I'm like, what? And I see the harmonium, and most likely, most probably I saw, saw, you know, a concert of Snatham Kaur, and something came as a vision, and it was very beautiful. Because at that time, I was already interested in indian teachings. So I was very closed into Tibetan Buddhism, in a way, in the beginning. And then at that time, I started opening in searching, and I met Muji, who is my guru now. And I met also the wondrous university in India. And I started exploring just allowing myself, because the practice is not buddhist, but we can become pretty rigid in the practice. And I felt that I was in that kind of, like, rigid place with my practice. And, you know, I started going to some meetings with these people from Juan's university in Argentina and experiencing things and having, like, really amazing mystical experiences. And I in, in that moment, I had this kind of message. And the first mantra, kalki mantra, which is on insight timer, was the first mantra. So it literally happened that I asked a friend to bring a harmonium. He understood that it was a harmonic, a little piece of instrument. How do you say harmonica? Yeah. He said, oh, yeah, of course I'll bring it. And so I bought it. He was in New York. Everything just wasn't so beautiful because it's schwar. No problem. When he went to pick up the instrument, he was, like, cursing, you know, how. How do you think I'm going to enter Argentina with this piece, you know? And it was like, everything went super well, and then everybody's like, how are you going to play it? So I just teach myself with tutorials on YouTube. But what was really magical is that the mantra was like, om Shrey Kalke sarvesh bharaya ramah om shrey ka in this way. And it came like a melody. And I grabbed the iPhone and I sang om shri kalki salves varaya because it came like a melody, and I sent it to a friend, and I'm like, can you help me? And he's like, yeah, it's a beautiful melody. And so musician, a friend musician who is my producer up to this day and my close collaborator, he. I say that he's the one that translated everything. And the music started coming, and I just couldn't help but chanting. And at one point I said, you know what? I'm just doing this. And everybody's like, you're crazy. And I. Yeah, I quit screenwriting, and I had a terrible time afterwards financially, but it's just, I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. I just wanted to chant, share, and at the same time, Maddy found me inside timer. So it's like, it was everything but a conscious decision. It was.
Lou: Yes. Yeah, but, I mean, you did how to take those steps. And I just want to highlight a few things in your story. One that, you know, I'm assuming maybe you did go through this, like, the potential imposter syndrome that could come up from, I'm not a singer or I'm not a musician. Right. I don't know how to do this, and maybe that wasn't your experience, but for some people, I can imagine, like, they. They might feel like this next calling, and, well, it's not like you have this. This big background in, necessarily, music, but that you can find this at the right time. And you don't have to have started when you were six, but you kind of just followed and really trusted. And maybe we're getting the feedback. And, of course, to have, like, the. The experience that you had and feeling that come through is so important, I can sense into a similar experience for me with a different flavor of it. And what I love, too, is you in some ways become or became or are a vehicle for these mantras, which if I think of in shamanism, they have, like, ikaros that are, you know, bringing. That are chanting with the medicine. Medicine songs. Right. And I think, yeah.
Prashanti: I recorded Abre Corazon from Rosa Hiove. She channeled that. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah.
Lou: And it's like these mantras are in some ways, medicine songs, too. Right. Like, the energy of the mantra is carrying. It's carrying the deity. It's. You know, I would love for you to talk about it. Not. Not me, talk about it, but. But the way that you can carry it in a way that's gonna maybe resonate on a more palpable level. Because when you hear the maybe traditional, like what you said at the beginning, that kind of robotic sound, like, that might not. That might not resonate for some people.
Prashanti: But might not be appealing.
Lou: Yeah, exactly. But for you. But hearing it in that melodic way, it's like you are getting that medicine, you're getting that transmission out there to the world into the people that wouldn't be attracted to the more, like, robotic type of chanting. Does that make sense? What? I'm sure.
Prashanti: Yes, absolutely. So just trying to go back to the beginning of your question about imposter syndrome, the answer is no. I never had to deal with it because I think it's very linked to the fact that I wasn't
Prashanti: trying to attain anything, trying to get anywhere, trying to. There was no effort, there was no intention, so there was no tension. And I made sure, actually, Muji says, you know, it's. I love it when there is intention, there is a lot of tension. And
Prashanti: I was very clear. And up until this day, my harmonium is all. I developed this kindergarten system to put different colors so that I can find the chords. Until this day, I go and play with those colors. I don't know how to play otherwise. And if you give me another harmonium that doesn't have this notation of, you know, colors, I don't know what to do. And I think it's since the very beginning, when you are very authentic, there is nothing to hide, nothing to prove. So there wasn't this heavy weight of, you know, oh, I have to. I'm not a musician. I never consider myself a musician, and I don't consider up until this day. And I never really did plan to make any kind of, like. There was not an intention, like melodies were coming through literally in the harmonium. And I would take pictures of my fingers and record so that my producer could be then playing in the guitar and making a song of it. And that's how it's still up to this day. And I never wanted to improve or, you know, perfect this musician Persona. It's not what it's about. Maybe, you know, I could to make my musicians friends lives easier, but I still don't know, you know, the keys and all of these, but so no imposter system syndrome. Also, Krishna Das has a beautiful saying about music and mantras, and I love this one. He says, that mantra is the medicine, like you just mentioned. And when you want to give a child a medicine, you have to hide it in honey or something sweet. And music is the medicine is the honey, you know. So we hide the medicine in these melodies and, oh, I like so much this one or that devotional singer. Yeah, the power is in the mantra. You might resonate because of your tendencies with one or with another musician or devotional singer. But actually the power always, I try to make this clear, and now I go to the other point. I am not. I'm sharing, not even facilitating, also what I've experienced and went through my system. So the first mantras were green Tara, medicine, Buddha mantras that I've received initiations, ritual authorizations and practice with, you know, green Tara every single day. Like so. Yes, of course, when it comes, I feel there is a power in that as opposed as googling a mantra. And now I'm going to sing this mantra. And, you know, there's nothing wrong about.
Lou: It, but it's a different chart.
Prashanti: I didn't feel a pressure because I felt it was all coming from a place that I didn't say. I didn't have a saying.
Lou: Yeah, yeah, beautiful. You're making me realize, like, well, I try really hard. I have tried. Really. The end, there's been the unfolding and surrender and all that. And it's all been beautiful. And that's part of my dharma, I believe.
Prashanti: But I'll be very happy to chant with you.
Lou: I would. Oh, that would be a gift. That would be a gift. But what you're saying, I'm gonna. I've been more in, immersed in shamanic circles in the past few years and in shamanic lineage, you would do a dietta, and on the dietta, you would be dieting a specific plant. And those plants often would have an icaro that. That you actually have to go, you can't, like, oh, this is the icaro for this plant? Yes. It's like looking up the icaro online. It's like, yeah, you can look at the words, but when you actually diet the plant, my friend made this connection. It's like, it's like knowing someone from what you see on tv and actually having a relationship with that person. Like, that's actually my friend. And so when you sit with the plant, I've heard and it blows my mind that ikaro, the plant will actually speaking it to you through it. So you actually can relate to the plant. So when you're in a ceremony that Ikara would come through and it's almost like you've been given that medicine to give through having dieted and done that work. So it sounds similar to what you're saying of these mantras actually have come through me and now I'm taking them out into the world and it has a different quality than, oh, I like this, like a song, and I'm going to sing this song. And again, like you said, there's nothing wrong with that. But no, I think that makes it. That makes, I think what you're doing and what I'm assuming, like, that people like the Krishna Das having. Having such a potent effect and such a, like a healing effect in many ways. Right. What medicine does, I'd love to hear if specific mantras like, let's just do like, I'm a huge. Ganesha came to me really early on in my journey in a, in a, in a very distinct, like, mystical vision. It was the. Why? One of the wildest things. No psychedelics, none of that. It was just wild. So I've always felt really close to Ganesha in that way. And I'm just, I'm curious how you, if you do explain what each mantra is doing, like, is like the Ganesha mantra for X or Gayatri mantra for this or blanking on more mantras. But you get what I'm saying.
Prashanti: Absolutely.
Lou: Yeah.
Prashanti: So just to clarify, I started sharing the mantras that I had more experience with, but then I expanded to mantras that maybe I just feel that it's not like you have to have a master on that mantra to share it, but it's super nice when it comes in this way. And it gave me the courage, I guess, to share. And then I explored other mantras that maybe wasn't part of my, you know, like such a strong practice, like these ones from Buddhism. And so Ganesha is one of those. Like, I feel a very strong connection with Ganesha. And I gave my mom, without having a clue about this elephant headed deity, one statue when I was like 1617 years old, and I just felt this strong Ganesha connection, like yourself. It's interesting. What you're asking me about this question is taking me to maybe the next topic that we discussed, maybe about spiritual materialism. And it's very interesting because, yes, I do say for practical purposes, and I feel that that connects the person, the benefit that you may get, like Ganesha to remove obstacles, green tada for fear and anxiety, or medicine Buddha for healing, or, I don't know, like Amitabha Buddha for the deceased ones. Yes. I like to give some context and what is it for? But then it can soon become like a tool. Like, and of course it's a tool. Mantra is a tool and that's what it is. But then I need this for that. And then now I'm going to switch this for that. And it's just. It's one medicine. Yeah, it's chanting the names is the one name. So, you know, we have to balance a little bit. Like, it's good that you ask this because I always say, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. For self love. Aha. But just remember, okay, Omani Padme. Like the names you're just calling the one totally. With different names.
Lou: Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to ask that question because I've heard my one friend who mentioned my friend Alistair's, who's really steeped in his shamanics study, and he'll talk about how the ego will take anything it can for its own, um, elevation. Right? Like, it'll take this experience and then elevate itself from it. And which is getting to the essence, I think, of what we're you know what? I'd love to discuss you with, with spiritual materialism because it's a common. It's a, it's a topic that many people in spirituality actually don't have any idea. I mean, I think it. You can make an assumption about what it is based on the name, but I mean, you know, there's a book, Chung Yum Chungpa Rinpoche wrote books, spiritual cutting through spiritual materialism. And so, yeah, I'd love to explore this conversation because I think it's important, especially on this podcast, because we're literally like the materialistic world of business and money. We're kind of, you know, there's the spirituality. So this is an important topic to talk about. So the question is, what is your. Yeah. How do you approach or how do you define spiritual materialism? And also, what are you, what are some issues you see in this world or the world that use, like, how people engage with spirituality? And you kind of mentioned one already, like, using it for something.
Prashanti: Yeah, I think maybe I would like to speak from my own experience because, like, already if I give a point of view, like, how people, you know, do things with spirituality is going to be, like, not really nice, but I speak from my own experience. Right. And so I think spiritual materialism is some kind of, like, sense of, you know, like, practices and spiritual practices. And the path can bring something to the ego, like you said, you know, like, enhance or perfect me, I mine. And it's kind of like the ego wanting to have, like, you know, it's in coach kind of experience, karmic experience in this lifetime. And somehow you can engage. Or if you don't initially engage because of that, you can easily become like, you know, trapped into this perfectionism of myself. And now I'm more compassionate and now I'm more patient. And look at me. I look, I glow in the dark, you know, like. So it's like this grandiosity and just this sense of comparing your experience with other ones. And I did this training and I did for 24 years, and I received these initiations and I went to this retreat and then I went to that retreat. And just accumulating, I think it's related to when spirituality becomes any other kind of consuming things. Just when we project that we can obtain happiness with exterior things, external things. So it just somehow, in a very twisted and clever way, the ego, what we call the ego, the personality, the personhood is, it manages to hijack the whole spiritual path and initial pure intention. I always feel we come from a very genuine and pure place. And I always say, you know, I think people that are not in the search or seeking seekers are having a better time, because once you engage, you know, I see my partner, and it's. You know, it's more simple, like, so, but what I think, you know, is. And even they can be your teachers, you know, and just with your. I think it's that precisely your behavior. It's expressing your spirituality. Maybe you don't even practice anything, but it's not what you speak about all the time. I did this and I did that, and it's a sense of ownership, you know, of having these views and experiences and attaining certain states in meditation. And that, I think, is when we are trapped in this place, that, for me, it's so painful, actually, because it's like being in the middle of the river, because I'd rather be in one side of the river, like, totally, you know, netflix popcorn kind of vibe. Then, you know, to. It can become very conflictive, you know, to be trying to improve what actually cannot be improved.
Lou: Yeah.
Prashanti: Because we want to actually, you know, dissolve into the heart. It's not perfecting something that. Yeah, it's hard to talk about these things because I don't have any clue about how to get rid of my ego, but I don't think I want to get rid of anything. But it's just like, it doesn't get so much in the way, if that makes sense.
Lou: 100%. Yeah. I think the way that you are speaking to this is spot on and really digestible, too. And, like, it's so true that people that aren't into spirituality or seeking or doing any kind of self development on themselves, like, there's in the past, and I'm guilty of this too early on. There's a better than, oh, like, I found this. I'm more conscious of superiority. Totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You don't even know. Like, you don't. Haven't done this. You haven't done work on yourselves. And, you know, that can. Especially early on when you're not, as, you know, you don't have as many support people or teachers or haven't just been humbled enough to realize how little we actually know. It's. Yeah, these can be really simple trappings to get ourselves in, and there's.
Prashanti: But still, I feel to beat ourselves up because of these. Sorry for the interruption. It's part of the same game.
Lou: Yes.
Prashanti: It's a very sadistic game. Like, you know what I mean? So be careful not to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's my fault. In the beginning, I also felt, yeah, that's also the same one.
Lou: I know the coaching. I've been in a multi year training of a style of coaching with a group called Aletheia. And their whole basis is, what if nothing is missing? And they're. They're kind of going against the self improvement paradigm that is like, that's what the issue with people that are seeking is. There's always another deficiency. There's always not enough. And I'm always needing to better this. And we get there and we're like, although this thing's not right or this, and we're just search for perfection, like you said, when, you know, and he has a very deep spiritual background, the teacher and coach named Steve March. And it's this instead, this understanding that we are always whole, perfect and complete, and we are unfolding. Right. That wholeness is unfolding into more contact with that wholeness, and it's unfolding it to itself. And it's. Yeah, it's a really, I think, important thing to continue to speak about like that, to improve. Literally, I'm proving right. There's just like this trying to get.
Prashanti: Somewhere again, a lot of intention.
Lou: Yeah, yeah. I love this. This is a mind blowing on intention. Intention. There's a lot of tension also, you.
Prashanti: Know, muji speak speaks about, like you were saying, you know, in this personhood mode, in this personal mode of experiencing things. What if we are just old and we are actually, it's for me, more than an unfolding, I would say it's like a recognition. It's like the veil falls and you see what it's actually there. You know, everything else is not true. So, yes, he always speaks about something that for me is very graphic and visual, is that you can spend your whole life, like, trimming the leaves of the tree, but until you don't take it from the root, it just. You trim it here, it looks wonderful, but then it's a problem there, and then it's another one, and then there is no end to this.
Lou: Yeah. Yeah. So you also mentioned fairy tale spirituality. Is that different than spiritual materialism?
Prashanti: I love. I think it came up about talking about this dream, about also having a partner. You know, that it's the rom.com, the ultimate spiritual rom.com. i'm a screenwriter.
Lou: So sorry, my twin flame or something like that. To, like, you have this perfect life.
Prashanti: In some ways, as long as you're twin flame, blame does the same things you do, you know, like, because of course we want them to do. You know, if we like burning sage. Then it's sage, you know, and so it's like having someone who is also in the path. And. And I tend to now, you know, I'm 52. I experienced that people in the party tends to be really complicated sometimes I think I rather not. So the spiritual fairy tale is a bit like, oh, my partner and I like, you see, Deborah, premal and Mitan, and you just. There is a poll about the sitaram, the divine couple in this relationship, very detached and all love, unconditional love, no expectations. And I just, yeah, we can also filter, you know, like, relationships that are very meaningful, like, where's your curriculum, you know, your spiritual. And I just, yeah, I just feel that, you know, spirituality ultimately is a kind heart and kindness, love and compassion, you know, and that's it. That's pretty much about it, of course, wisdom. But I feel also that I wanted to say a few things about how we consume things that are spiritual, that we buy. We always need another statue of Buddha, a new incense, the thing where you burn the sage. And I myself get caught into this because, of course, I'm not speaking. It's me from my experience, and always like, yeah, there's something else to do to attain, and it's a kind of postponement also. And it becomes an entertainment. And when you have so much, like, there is a library of 10,000, 20,030, whatever, thousand meditations. And I discussed this with my insight timer inner circle. You know, we have these circles that I always try to guide them in a way to say, hey, be aware of this tendency, you know, that we are just shopping for more. And now I want this mantra, and now I want this course, and now I start and I don't finish and I move to another one, and it's just like it's this restlessness. And I feel that, okay, if you want to get somewhere mantra is all about repetition. And I always recommend sticking to one, at least for a week to have some kind of, like you said, you know, to befriend that mantra like that Ikaro, become friends so you can understand what it does to you. Because if it's not experienced, then it's just accumulating more, you know, knowledge or information, not even knowledge. And it gets so busy and crowded, you know, I feel it can be the ultimate distraction.
Lou: So that brings up a really interesting point and curious how you navigate. And maybe because it's not having to be your full time living. It sounds like I have this title of this podcast called the art and business of meditation. And this is my own insecurity, but there might be some truth in it. I have a judgment that if. And I love Ram Dass, let's say Ram Dass were to hear about my podcast, that there'd be, like, this is what's wrong in some ways. Like, the business of meditation, right? Like, there. There would be some this. And I know that I'm open. Like, I can. I can speak and understand where that judgment would be coming from. And I'm doing my best to trust that this is what I'm supposed to be doing and walk this weird line of business and spirituality. And so I'd love to hear. Yeah. Like, how you do the how. Okay. If you don't want people to consume, you know, how are you sharing your offerings? Like, how are you, you know, talking about building your business if, like, how you think about it from this place of. I don't want to continue spiritual materialism or consumerism. Yeah, I'd be curious how you navigate that.
Prashanti: Yeah. So two things are separate here. Like, two questions, maybe, or one thing that I want to comment is on you, on your podcast. So before we begin, we took this moment to sit and to be together in this intention and purely, I was with goosebumps. I told you, because it was so much peace and what I felt is this pure heart and intention. And I felt like, oh, this guy is all about bodhicitta. He's here showing for other beings, you know? And it really touched my heart because I felt such generosity and, yeah, just this kindness, you know? And so I don't know about Ramdas.
Lou: But I can tell you, you're bringing me tear up.
Prashanti: I can tell you that I feel that people listening to your podcast and I'll definitely. I told you, I'm a fan already. I love it how you share things and it resonates a lot with me. I'm totally going to advertise your podcast because I feel it's so necessary and you do it with so much grace and wisdom and authenticity. You are so authentic. And, yeah, by all means, let's speak about business. And so, in my experience, I didn't start this to. The word business came very recently. Like, is this a business? Like, I never even acknowledged. Like, is this my business? And I think it's because it was so gradual and because I'm an astrologer. When I quit screenwriting, I started supporting myself and my daughter. I'm a single mom with my astrology work when I love teaching astrology. And just so it was very. It was kept very pure until inside time and monetized it. So I wasn't making any money of it, and I was. You would just do astrology money.
Lou: You were doing astrology sessions just for free? Is that what I'm hearing?
Prashanti: No, no. I was.
Lou: No.
Prashanti: So astrology was, like, my business. No, no. If you want, like, I was charging coaching without it.
Lou: Got it, got it.
Prashanti: You know, so that was, like, I was working and making a living, like a very basic living with astrology, because you make so much more money with screenwriting. But it's interesting because. So I was doing astrology, and I was even investing money in recording my first album. And up until this day, I'm just putting money on this business. So, because I have three albums now and they are expensive, you know, so I never thought about it as a business. I was invited to join inside Timer. I will speak a little bit about inside timer because that's how it started to look like a business. And so it was back in those days where Maddie sent you an email, like Q, I guess, and I joined. Oh, yeah. And the first question was, is there any money involved? Because. No, no, no. It's just. Oh. So I was so happy to share with the whole world. Yeah. It was, for me, an opportunity of window to just impact more lives with this. And there was a component. It was so playful and innocent and so light. It was very beautiful. And I was responding to every single review. And Maddy sent me an email, and she said something like, you know, past that, you don't have to respond to every single comment. And I'm like, but I want to because I was just thrilled that people would even listen to these songs. And so I was doing my job, my side job as an astrologer and just recording and chanting. And there was no money business thing involved. When they asked me to do the first course, that's when I think it became like, oh, there is money involved. And again, years passed, and I didn't really rely on that income whatsoever, but it built up somehow. So when I hear, like, how can you make it on inside timer? How can you achieve, like, three k, 4k? Like, things like that? I don't even have a clue because it just. Everything unfolded. But then there was a moment during the pandemic where I moved to the Netherlands. I wasn't working as an astrologer, and I started focusing more on, yeah, this is a source of income, definitely. And I don't think there is anything wrong with it because it's an exchange of my time and my energy, and I started doing courses. And it's not like there is a problem with charging for these things. It's more than I was contemplating the other day. Very soon you can become the same one that left the business of entertainment and screenwriting if you bring the same mindset. So you can change whatever work you think is the highest work. But if you steal that one, it's going to show up again, and you have to deal with that again. And there is like, greed, whatever you discuss so beautifully, the greed, the how do I grow. You compare yourself to other teachers and all of these things will come up. And it's beautiful because it's your practice also. That's the life is your practice. And I don't have a conflict with that. If you ask me where I'm now, I'm at a turning point, really, where I don't want this to be my business. And I'm becoming, I am coming back to screenwriting because I'd rather be a lawyer or, I don't know, something else than to have to complicate myself with, you know, making a business of. So for me, it sounds like it's my, what gives me peace now. So I decided, okay, I'm going to focus on building my business around astrology. And this is breaking news. And I just want to offer this music, you know, and hopefully this business will allow me to sustain the other thing.
Lou: Gotcha. Yeah.
Prashanti: So that's where I am right now. Yeah.
Lou: Thanks for sharing that. And what you, what you shared is, and I keep walking this line because I see, I'm in these insight timer groups and they're like, you know, you've probably seen it, too. Like, how do I make this much? And it's all about, let's share your revenue goal for, like, I need to make this much. And, you know, some people messaged me of like, hey, I need to make my living on inside timer this year. What should I do? I was like, uh, you don't shoot. You probably shouldn't do that. That's like, well, why'd you put this much pressure on yourself? It's like, it wasn't everyone. I know, and I know some people that are making a good amount of money. I have a friend who's, he's actually making in the five figure range a month currently from inside timer. And all of these people never once said, how do I make the most money on insight timer that I can? And so, and that's why I have a video, because I like to be transparent. With. I think it's important. I like the transparency of hearing about how well, what are you making? And so I have a video on YouTube, and I might share it on the podcast, I think. But I share this of, like, hey, this is. Yeah, this is what I'm making. This is possible. And everyone that I know, myself included, started on this app from this space of, wow, what an opportunity. I'm just here to give. And what now? Making money. Great. Like, wow. And it just only grew from there. And the people that are, I feel like, stay in that authentic intention, that generous intention, have done the best. And so it's like, yes, I get this. Like, okay, I'm really wanting to have a goal and figure that out. So it's this interesting. It's. It's really, um. Yeah, it's a fascinating thing to line, but I love hearing your story as another example of. You're just sharing. You're just sharing and, like, it's been a gift.
Prashanti: I don't judge anyone because. But I just. From my own experience, I am like, why would I bring this so much pressure and stress and strategy and all of the dynamics that I quit when I quit what I was doing because I wanted to do something different and I'm just replicating the same ways.
Lou: Yes.
Prashanti: Do you see what I mean?
Lou: I hear you.
Prashanti: Like, when I catch myself, like, responding a comment, because I know that that comment pays on inside timer. That's when I. That's. That stinks to me, you know?
Lou: Yeah, that's my own good call. Does this feel genuine?
Prashanti: I don't want this, you know, oh, no, I don't want to go this road. And, you know, like you said the other day, you were talking about engagement and on the last podcast and you said something and because you're happy to, I can see this enthusiasm in you and generosity. I feel the same enthusiasm around my students and what they have to say and share. And that's why I said I was responding even when there was nothing, you know, for me there, other than connecting connection, which I think is the deepest thing. And it's like we are actually giving our time. And when you record, I love also sending voice messages, sometimes up to five minutes. I don't know if they listen to it, but it is our. So I had to learn also to find balance and to say, this is my time, it's my energy. And for me, it was learning the other way around. Like, now I want to learn more about how to make my business. Like, I never had that mind frame. I guess and, and there is no like contradiction. I think I was very judgmental before about making money with spiritual things and just really harsh with myself. I don't think ambition is contradictory too, because it's your mission. Your ambition is your mission, basically. And, you know, in a way he's like, you want to grow and expand and as a result, natural result of that, abundance will flow, I think is what you were saying before, but yeah, well, it's.
Lou: The two words that I've been playing with is the difference between an offering and an offer. And when I think of an offering, I think of something that's almost, it's like a, it's like a devotion. Like this is, this is my offering. I'm giving it, I'm releasing it to the world. And there's this unattachment to it. There's like this feels like by I want to start like tearing up, it feels like by giving this right. By even like giving this podcast and it's only just starting to like get some momentum. I've been doing this for like a year and a half, but it's like, this just feels like a gift. And this is an offering and I'm not really attached to where this goes. And there's such an energy in an offering. Like you'd go to a temple, right? You'd give an offering to something. An offer. Nothing wrong with having offers, but with an offer, there's a waiting for a response. Hey, my astrology reading costs this much. What do you think? Right? This is my offer. And so there's like a different thing. You can't do that with everything and you can't just offer, you can't always have a response. And so I see inside timer in that like these are offerings and what a blessing that I'm making money, but I'm really trying not to like people that are trying to make it their business. I'm like that, no, it can help your business for sure. It can be a leg of it for sure. That's how I see it. It's the energy of coming at it as an offering versus an offer, something.
Prashanti: That I've been absolutely, yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. And I had to work on how, what number to put to that offer as an astrologer now and I had to raise my numbers and because of, you know, I think life throw threw me on a washing machine. Like my life is like so hectic right now that I was pushed to own this business entrepreneur thing because, yeah, it's something that I also need to give to others like my family. But for me, it's something I'm healing. My relationship with money, you can say, which is a cliche, but it's true because I'm like, what is wrong with you? It's not. It's your time. You're sharing something.
Lou: Why can Brad Pitt get paid millions of dollars to go on that movie? But you can't get paid this much to change, to help someone's your life. Right?
Prashanti: I feel. I feel coaching, like, astrology is my work right now would be. And screenwriting that I continue to write and get, you know, a salary for that. And my goal, or my aim is that the music is an offering.
Lou: I love it.
Prashanti: And having said that, if insight timer and I make a very good income monthly. Yeah. But it's. It has a different smell, a different taste, how you open the computer, how you go to the dashboard, and how you approach the whole thing.
Lou: Yeah, totally agree.
Prashanti: So.
Lou: Totally agree.
Prashanti: Yeah.
Lou: I'd love to ask you one more question, if you have time. There's, like, one other thing I wanted to say to that, but it blanked on me. So I'm always fascinated by finding your guru experiences. Like, you talked about experiencing, finding muji and that experience of, like, feeling like you came home. And I just love to just hear you speak to that, because it's, like, something I like. Not envy is a strong word, but I look to people that talk about that experience, and there's the part of me that's I want to find that I want to just surrender into. Like, this is the energy I can surrender into and feel that, what I can imagine that feels like. And so, yeah, when I hear that story, I'm just so fascinated. Selena Laal, you might know Selena on insight timer, too. She was on this podcast, and she. I forget her guru's name, but she explained a bit about that experience for her, something ma. Sai ma, I think. Saima. But I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to hear that experience with Muji, if you're willing to share.
Prashanti: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. So, I think Guru is different than teachers. I had many teachers in my life that I'm so grateful for all of them. But still, in Buddhism, though, I had amazing teachers and rinpoches and enlightened ones, like, considered within the Buddhist. I never had this. I never felt this ultimate unconditional love. Completely surrender, you know, completely dissolving. Like it's just an exploit. I think it's like when you fall in love, you know, when you. You just know, and then you know, it's not true and that you were.
Lou: Wrong.
Prashanti: But I think it's like, it's something very intuitive. It's something that the mind also don't have a saying. And I remember my sister sent me a video at that time. I was struggling with probably some bad relationship in a bad romance, and she sent me a video. Very practical, I think it was like, oh, you don't need to be loved, or there's no need to be loved, or something like that. And it was like, wow. For me, it was like, wow. And I started just watching youtubes, and I was in Argentina, of course, he has his retreat center in Portugal. So for me, it was at the beginning, a lot of YouTube. And then I signed up for some retreats online, and I just couldn't help it but go to that direction. And that's also what brought me to the Netherlands, because I came. No, first I met him in a retreat in Portugal, and then I came to the Netherlands for another retreat. That's a different story for a different podcast. But, yeah, with Muji, it's like, yeah, I've been with him walking or considering myself, his students since 2017. And
Prashanti: I would say also to be mindful to whoever is listening to this, to that tendency of something is lacking because I don't have my guru. Again, going back to the spiritual materialism. She has the guru, I don't. Oh, bummer. You know, I'm one step behind.
Lou: It got me. Again, can't escape this.
Prashanti: So, no, don't fall into that, because as Krishna Das also says, it's so beautiful. Life is your guru. Like, ultimately, life is your guru. And I can tell you, Lou, for me, the last year has been extreme. Like, my father passed at home when he was visiting me from Argentina. I woke up at 05:00 a.m. and I found him dead sitting in the living room.
Lou: Wow.
Prashanti: That was my guru, like, manifesting through this experience, like, boom. The night before, watching the Champions leagues. Yay. And just fun. And everything was fine. And then the next day, impermanence gone and things like that. Very extreme. Like, two months after my partner was diagnosed with cancer, advanced stage. And I'm like, okay, you know, and that's my guru again, saying, you know what? You need to take your money more seriously, because so life is teaching me so much, and all of these beautiful beings around me, you know, of course, Muji is my guru in the form. And the difference between teacher and guru is, like, guru is the one you totally commit and surrender and not in a submissive way because I'm such a rebel, but in a way that you say, yeah, I arrived. I don't need to keep looking for the next teaching, for the next retreat, for the next mantra, for the next philosophy. This is it. And basically what he's saying these days is, like, more and more simple. And it's becoming like, just bear your own silence. You know, just sit and bear your own silence and be with yourself and just. And the teachings also are becoming so simple and so strong, powerful. So again, if someone doesn't have their guru, like, maybe they will find in the physical form. Maybe their Guru is someone who passed already. And you have such a strong connection, like Ram Das or Ananda Maima or anyone, that it's gone like Ramana or, I don't know, so many. And you can have such a powerful connection. I guess it's the one that there is a story about. Muji also. Someone approached him and said, yeah, because I had this guru and I had that guru. So I have five gurus. And he said, like, wow, how did you survive? You're not supposed to survive even one.
Lou: That's hilarious.
Prashanti: So, yeah, and it's amazing because I'm off to Portugal in just three days for a retreat, a time with him. And it's such a blessing.
Lou: It's so beautiful. Prashanthi. Thank you so much. Do you go by Prashanthi or pause?
Prashanti: It's funny. You read my mind because I'm like, did I tell him or not? So, Guruji, Muji gave me the name Prashanthi, and that's a funny story because it was, like, a year and a half ago, I never wanted or thought about having a name. Like, I also was very, like, suspicious of my own intentions. Like, now I have a name. It's a spiritual name. Yeah.
Lou: That's an up level in your spiritual journey.
Prashanti: I'm not a coach anymore. I'm in the business class of spirituality.
Lou: Yes. Before you tell the story, you're reminding me. Selena told you might appreciate this because you have experienced it. But Selena, when she was on the podcast, she said her guru gave her a name, and then she took it away. She said it actually took it away from her.
Prashanti: That's amazing.
Lou: I love it.
Prashanti: Anyway, that's an exercise in detachment. So, yeah, so, Muji, again, it came very natural. I just, you know, I expressed that. Yeah. I just feel in my heart, I would love for you to. I felt it was a way to get closer to him in my heart, and it's actually what it was a beautiful way ceremony, a beautiful way to. I felt that I got, like, even closer, if that's possible, because, you know, I'm not all the time with him, and he's inside my heart, and. But he gave me the name Prashanti just to not make a long story. And it was funny because prashanti means supreme peace, and my name is Paz, which is peace in Spanish.
Lou: Wow.
Prashanti: So he said, oh, I didn't know that. But your name came very like, you know, and it's Prashanti. And Prashanti is supreme peace or the boat of peace. So my daughter, she makes fun of me in a very respectful way because she loves Muji, but she says, mom, your name is Chai Latte. It's redundant. You have double peas.
Lou: Chai tea, right? Yes.
Prashanti: Yeah. Chai latte. Chai is with milk. So chai la.
Lou: Oh, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. Oh, man.
Prashanti: So I try not to also, like, there is a huge sense of, you know, gratitude and respect and. But I try not to make a big of a deal of it. You know, someone wants to call me Paz. It's perfectly fine. Like, yeah, you know, Prashanti. It's fine. It's. Yeah, he gave me the name.
Lou: Yeah. I'll take supreme peace over peace. I guess, if we're gonna, you know, grab one spiritually, you know, hold one. I'll take the supreme one, please. Two supremes on me just to bring.
Prashanti: Peace on me.
Lou: To give you more acknowledgement and veneration. Right. You are a real one. So thank you so much for being you in the world, and it's been a absolute pleasure. Oh, do you. Please, do you, for your business, send people to where you want them to go?
Prashanti: Yeah. So I didn't launch it yet. It's going to be in Spanish because that's part of the refining of how I want to move from now on. And I just feel also that I need to express in Spanish, but also I will continue because my clients, english speakers, they're like, what? But I work one on one. And if they want to work with me, they can go to. To Instagram, Prashantipaz, and they will find the link tree. And, yeah, you can see I'm not a business person. There is a calendly where they can book, hopefully a session if they feel inspired. I call what I do spiritual astrology, and that the approach is really self knowledge, like, getting to know yourself from a different. With a different tool. Yeah, but it's not predictive at all. Or these things I just say to filter any expectations that are not aligned to what I do.
Lou: Of course. Yeah. Well, go. Go. Follow Prashanti and go deep, digger. Deep, deep. Dig. Deep, deep. Dig deeper to her work. Go listen to her. I've been listening to her mantras a lot the past few days, so please go. They're so beautiful. And thank you so much. What a blessing. All right, friends. Take care. I'll see you soon.