Using Somatic Awareness to Create Authentic Content w/ Sheridan Ruth
In this episode, I talk with Sheridan Ruth, a trauma therapist and business coach. We explore the integration of trauma healing into business practices, including using somatic awareness in our content, creating boundaries, and finding balance between well-being and business goals. Sheridan also shares insights into pricing with integrity, navigating the emotional complexities of our relationship to money.
Takeaways:
Understand how somatic awareness can inform your business practices and prevent burnout.
Learn the importance of recognizing your nervous system needs in relation to trauma and business goals.
Explore strategies for creating sustainable boundaries in coaching and professional relationships.
Gain insights on setting prices that reflect market value and resonate with your personal integrity.
Learn to navigate the emotional complexities around money and how it influences your business decisions.
GIFT FOR YOU
If you’re a meditation teacher or coach who wants to create unique meditations people listen to over and over again, enroll in my free course Meditation Script Mastery
Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. Welcome to another podcast interview episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. I'm your host, Lou Redmond. And today we have Sheridan Ruth. Sheridan is a trauma therapist and nervous system specialist. She went from being stripped of every strand of hair on her body to losing her ex to suicide. Three weeks after breaking up, she was forced to use trauma healing to sustainably build her business. She now helps coaches and practitioners by merging body based tools, nervous system and business strategy. So, Sheraton, welcome to the show.
Sheridan: Hi. Hi everyone. I was just kind of, as we were grounding, I was kind of, I like to feel into the audience and fill into the entity of the show and I literally just got shivers all down kind of the front of my chest and yeah, hello, nice to see you. I don't know what that means, but it is what is happening. So. Hi.
Lou: Yeah, beautiful. Well, maybe that kind of speaks to your, you know, somatic awareness and sounds like that's a big focus point or North Star on maybe making decisions in your life in general. So, you know, maybe just going with that. Just curious, like, how do you, how do you use your body just to feel into your day to day on a normal basis?
Sheridan: This is a great question and I actually answered it yesterday. So I like that I'm prepared for it.
Sheridan: I think it's really at a very baseline level. It's pausing throughout the day today and saying, one, what am I aware of in my inside of my body? So like, if I was to do that now, I would feel there's like, my belly is full, I've just eaten and my head is a little bit cold and I feel kind of energy running up and forward and so what do I feel? And then what does that mean to me? And I've just said it. Warmth in my belly. I'm full energy up and forward and my head is cold. Well, my head is cold because it's cold and I don't have any hair on it. But what, what would I be curious about would be, oh, why is the energy going up and forward? And what might that mean? And then you can get curious about, well, if that's what I think it means, does it actually mean that? And sometimes, yeah, 100 that's exactly what it means. And there are other times where you're like, oh, you can get more curious around it. Well, what if it didn't mean that? What if it meant something else? But at the base I think is what am I aware of? What does that mean?
Lou: I love that. I think of though, for Some people having a tough time having the connection to their body. And speaking for myself, too, I am trained in a good amount of somatic coaching, and so I understand that landscape. And it's definitely. I would never say I'm a somatic coach because, like, that's not the pill. That's not the shingle that I, you know, rest my work on. Um, I can go in that world. Like, I'm trained to understand that world, and I can hold space for that. And for me personally, it's actually really tough to understand the felt set, the granular feeling of different aspects of my body. That it's definitely been a. A work in progress, and it still can be challenging. So I'm just curious, like, have you always had that sort of connection and maybe do you find people that changing for people or. Yeah, I guess I'm certain you work with people, and as any coach who's on here, you know, works. I'm sure it works with people where you ask them a question about feeling or going into their body, and they're just like. They don't go. They go, you know, somewhere else. And it's just always so hard to.
Sheridan: Reorient that I did not have this at all. At all. At all. At all. I mean. Oof. And it's been a honing and a practice. And I think, in part, I'm so good at it because I started doing it, and then, you know, I sit for many hours a week teaching other people to do it, which means I have to do it inside of myself. So it. It's a skill. You know, I started. The first thing that comes to me is like, Lou. I ended up for five years in a very abusive relationship. And if I had had any. But I was completely oblivious. I. I didn't realize how harmful those things were for me because I had no contact with anything that was happening inside of me. It wasn't even like it was numb. It's just, like. Know when you feel numb, sometimes you can kind of feel into. Oh. Like it's a. It's a heavy numbness or it's like there's a wall. It. Maybe it wasn't just a wall. It just. There was nothing. And I remember laying on this. You know, this. This. I remember, like, laying on my bed one time, and I started going to yoga, and the yoga teacher had talked about meditation, and I think probably I'd, like, read an article about it or something. Okay. Meditating. I could try that. Maybe that would help me with my anxiety. Okay, cool. And I was Having a lot of panic attacks at the time, and I didn't know that. Panic attacks. I was like, I just feel so overwhelmed. I can't breathe. It was a panic attack. And I remember laying down, propping myself up in these big pillows on this big bed, and I was like, okay, cool, I'm going to meditate for 60 seconds. And I put the car map on, and I. It took me maybe a week to just get to being able to just sit for 60 seconds. I every. I. I would just kind of freak out and I would, I've got to go do something else. And I remember when I first got to that 60 seconds, I was so proud of myself. And I kept going, kept going. I was like, okay, I could do four minutes. And then it's just been a gradual. And the more I got in contact and the more I just came back inside and I. When I did my first yoga teacher training, we did a lot of body scanning and it was like, okay, come back, come back, come back. And I just very slowly got that feed so much feedback from my body that doing things that were harming me just were. I just couldn't because I understood the depth of how much harm it was. But no, and I speak every single day with people. I'm like, okay, but like, what is that inside? No, this is not something. This is a skill that everyone can learn.
Lou: Okay, so where does that take you? I mean, that's, you know, from kind of sounds like the skill that you have now to getting into yoga, doing yoga teacher training. Like, how. Take us a little bit on. Okay, how do you become this? Doing this work now with people? Like, were you. What were you doing before?
Sheridan: I worked in non profits. I founded a nonprofit and I was very concerned and I still am very concerned with supporting communities to be more resilient and more equitable. However, I found, you know, we founded a. We created a community kitchen that was feeding about 300 people every two weeks and giving workshops to women in vulnerable spaces. Though the foundation continues, it's called Projecto Florecer. They do amazing work. I'm no longer a part of operations, but I really wanted to work in the nonprofit space is what I studied. And I energetically. It drained me a lot. It was ne. And it wasn't a good use of my skills. It required things that I, you know, that people were just better at than I was. I'm really good at the bigger picture and it. It needed other things and I wasn't. My body didn't have the energy to do It. My body didn't give me the energy to do it whereas and then I went into finance purely because needed a job. It was a job that was available and my, my body did give me the energy to like look at the bigger picture and how are we financing this. And it was a real. It. It was a real interesting journey of understanding somatic intelligence of like your body will give you the energy for the things that you need. And you know, we take it full circle now and I'm helping people have more equitable and companies or teams and I get to contribute in that way. I get to fulfill that initial purpose. But if. But I had to go a very different path to get there.
Lou: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that that sometimes is like oh, I'm actually doing the thing that I wanted to do but it didn't. It might not always look like how we started. I think that's a beautiful just lesson for anyone to take that you might start out with this intention and you might find yourself. Yeah. Fulfilling that intention in a totally different way.
Sheridan: Yeah. And can I add to that? Yeah. I think it's a testament to the body is that your desire or like your Sankalpa is on your heart. It's true and real and our mind thinks we're going to achieve it through one way. But your body will tell you exactly how to do it when it comes from the truest of your. Of your heart and it's getting in contact with that. This is what I have found to be true and I've seen demonstrated in many individuals. It's getting in contact with that that you take that effortless path to doing the thing that you want.
Lou: Yeah. It 100% it's like with the more it becomes like a maybe overused in some ways in maybe the coaching world or maybe promoted in. I don't know. It can feel like it's not true. Like it's almost said so much where it's like you work it becomes easier or it becomes more effortless in some ways. Like there's a flow. I mean there's. I don't know. I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. Like as you grow or you know, find your path.
Sheridan: I have such a distaste for the coaching community lately, especially around that eat that ease thing. So but at the end of the day there. I think there has to be a level of surrender of yes, it actually does get to be easy. That doesn't mean that you don't do hard things but it also doesn't mean that you Try to control the way in which your service and your work wants to be done in the world. Like, I, you know, I started and I wanted to sell a hair loss coaching course and I wanted to have 12 people in my group. And if I had fixated myself upon that goal, no matter how much I wanted it to be easy, and no matter how much money I put into making it easy, and no matter how much I did a lot of things, that is not what I am supposed to be doing with my energy. So in allowing it to be easy, you also have to accept that you don't actually know all of the information.
Lou: Totally, totally. And it's like, you know, for my. My story analogous to that is building a business teaching mindfulness to schools and in kids. And while I was good at it and could really enjoy moments of it and really feel like, okay, I love, you know, I love meditation. This has impacted me and I get to share it with. With youth and with schools and organizations. Like that sounds amazing, right? But the more I did it, one, it was like pushing a boulder uphill to continue to get opportunities and just the grind of it. And then when I was like true with myself, it's actually, this is not where I'm coming most alive. I can serve here. But actually, yes, it, you know, it served for a time for sure. And it's still something I do here and there. Um, but realizing like actually it's not this. And if I keep trying to do this, like I'm not the guy for this. Like, I can do okay and I can do well, but this is not me in realization of my full expression. And that can be kind of hard to come by. But sometimes we need to walk that path to. No, like we need to be like, okay, it's this thing. We need to step into this thing and be like, wait a second. No, I'm actually getting more energy here. Like for me, it's like I'm getting more energy through, you know, the meditation app, Insight Timer and what's happening here. And this just seems to be growing without me really doing much. And it's like, oh, this is. Or I love, you know, working with people that are wanting to be teachers and coaches is. It gives. This gives me so much energy. It's so fun. I can just talk about this stuff all day. Like we just. There's. There's something there that. Yeah, I think it's. Everyone's got to find that. And sometimes the way to find that is by. Yeah. Doing something and being like, eh, it's really not that.
Sheridan: Yeah, it is. And it's, it's you, you. When you do that or when, when you've done that, when you do that every day, everyone else who's listening who has done that, it takes an immense amount of courage because you have to let go of that ego and that part of you that wants like the five step plan. And every single client that comes to me, they're like, I just want a plan to know how to sell my group program. I'm like, okay, I can help you with these things. We can make a plan. And at the end of the day, I can promise you that if that group program wants to happen, it will happen. Or maybe you will do something else. I can promise you that you'll make the right decision. I can teach you how to do that. I can promise you that if we prioritize making money, we will make money. But we have to have feedback come in from the world around us and, and not get like, fixated on trying to like, make this one thing happen because then you're completely blocking yourself off from everything that could possibly happen.
Lou: Yeah. Michael Singer says, like, we have, we're like a flashlight in a dark room. Like, we, you know, we can't, we can't see all the other opportunities and potentialities. And so, yeah, really opening to that, a really wise lesson. So you talk about using trauma healing to build your business, and that just, that struck to me because part of me was like, well, wouldn't you do the trauma healing to heal your trauma? And then do, you know, business building to build your business? Like, it almost feels like they're two different things. So I'd love to just hear you expand on what that means for you and how that's like, helped. Yeah. How you engage with that.
Sheridan: Yeah. I think I'm probably one of the only people in the world that takes understanding of your trauma and then says, cool, how do we build a business protocol around that? And I think there's two things. Number one is understanding what your specific nervous system needs to go out and achieve its goals. And so it's understanding what your traumas are, what your core wounds are, what you're sensitive to, and not trying to heal them and change them, but actually saying, okay, there's actually a reverence and a beauty in that. You can work along the side and, and address that. You can try and heal it. But you know, if you are really afraid of being judged or you really, you know, you've got some abandonment stuff going on,
Sheridan: maybe you don't need to focus on doing a local event where in your small town. And it can be as simple as that. I'm like, okay, let's look at how to get you on insight timer instead where it's maybe that feels more comfortable in your body and we can actually get creative around it. Then there's maybe like how do we set you up with and prepare your clients if you have an abandonment wound? I had a client with an abandonment wound and it meant that she was on always trying to keep her clients and she didn't want them to ever stop working with her. And I was like, you know, you have to. And it got really weird and it ended. The relationships got sticky and she ended up over giving and then she was exhausted and then she ended up like putting down her prices. Like kind of like that energy of like just kind of stay with me. And it was like, okay, if we know that that's true, then we have to put some protocols in such as when you get on a call, you, you go in with a plan of what you're able to do and you, you can't adjust that on the call so you send it to the person prior and then if something like that. So it can be little things like that and you know, we're still working on the other stuff in the meantime. But it can also be little things like people. I've worked with a lot of people who tend towards burnout and will push themselves and they'll like work 12 hour days just to get this thing done. And you know, there are times in life where that is fun and exciting, but this was to the detriment of them. And so there we would do something where we would say, okay, we can regulate all day long. You can go to as many breath work sessions as you like, you can sleep, you can take the weekend off. But we have to also understand the deep fear or the deep pain inside that is causing you to go past your capacity to reach this goal. We need to be mindful that we don't collapse your business in search and in understanding of that. And so we, we work in with another pillar where it's like, okay, so what are the things that definitely need to be happening in my business for us to reach the revenue gobs that we need? And two, how do I then go in and look at, you know, maybe it was as simple as you used to get 99 on a test and your dad would say, why didn't you get 100? And so we go in and we kind of heal around that so that you don't have to push so hard, but you, your body feels safe enough knowing the businesses needs are still getting met. Because I ticked those boxes and set up those protocols and I know that they're getting done. Am I clear when I say that?
Lou: Yeah, totally. I mean it comes up for me when I think of. Well, let me ask you this is. Would you say that you're not really trying to go too far too soon? Like it's like finding the edge. Like for the example of someone doing a talk in their hometown. That just brought up for me, like that's kind of how I started teaching meditation. Was running meetup group workshops and I. And still for many, you know, I was pursuing public speaking, you know, for two years. And that was like really like my. A big focus for me. And this was an avenue to also share meditation and also do like a little, you know, being public speaker in that way. And I would, you know, be freaking out for like months in advance for more. Not maybe not the meditation classes, but just more general. If I had something on the calendar, like I would be freaking out and just. Yeah, in. In such a crazy mode. And I guess I think I look back and it still shows up. If I'm not prepared, like there's this thing with me, if I don't know what it is yet, I go into like this shutdown mode of what am I going to say? Until I start working on it, then I can start feeling better. It's like, okay, I know what the talk's going to be and I can start feeling more comfortable with it and then I love it.
Sheridan: But.
Lou: But there's that moment where I had this happen recently, very recently where someone asked me like, hey, can you do this thing on Thursday? And it was Sunday and I was traveling and so I just had little time and I hadn't had this kind of anxiety rush of oh my God, like I haven't had that in a while. I used to have it a lot. And I'm just wondering, you know, my energy, maybe this is kind of like a masculine thing of. I'm gonna put like if I push through this, I grow even stronger. Like, you know, actually instead of finding the, you know, instead of it being like an edge. Edge, edge. So I'm curious your thoughts on. Yeah, dealing with the big discomfort and if you can move through it. Like there's more growth that happens versus well, you know what? Maybe I should say no, it's a little uncomfortable. You know, let me find. That's something that's A little bit more comfortable. Do you get what I'm saying?
Sheridan: I understand what you're saying. And what's important to notice is the agency and the choice. And so trauma healing happens when we recognize and we understand that we have choice and agency. So I can't speak to maybe what is. What would be true for you. But if, if you came to me and you're like, hey, Sheridan, I got this event and they've asked me to speak on Thursday. And like I've just, I've shut down. It's like, okay, number one, regulate. So that we have a methodology called body based business. Writing a book about it at the moment. And step one, regulate. So literally in the moment, what am I doing to regulate? I'm pretty sure that you have at our listeners have a decent understanding of that. Number two, trauma healing. It's like, okay, I've just, I'm freaking out about this. What piece of me is it touching that is experiencing fear or pain and it might be super deep and it might just be. It's uncertain and I don't know what to do. Uncertainty is scary. Okay, cool. How do I love that part of myself? Well, I might remind myself that it's okay and I might just go put out a simple structure and that can provide it security. Or there might be something deeper here and it needs a couple of moments and it's. And I have to kind of sit with it for 20 minutes and self soothe. And if that was to happen continuously or particularly if I was at the beginning of my business, I would say, okay, it might be loving to suggest a different path. And it's about. The truth is you do find more fulfillment when you push. When you kind of push into the edges of what is. What is comfortable for you, it is always more fulfilling. It's like an orgasm. We have to get a little bit dysregulated and then we get the other side. We're like, wow, that was great. That's how we do fulfilling work. That's why none of us want to have like boring jobs because it's not fun. You have to push. But if I notice that that push sends me into shutdown, or it sends me and I'm having trouble sleeping or I'm eating more than I should, or I'm drinking more than I should, or it's difficult for me to connect with people, that's where I would say, oh, it looks like your body is perceiving this as a. Rather than a challenge. Like we want a challenge. We don't want A threat. And I would say either how do we make the thing feel less threatening and a little bit like a small, small problem so that we can make it feel like a challenge, or how do you get back in contact with your power so that you feel more powerful and now the threat diminishes and it becomes a challenge. There's like, so many ways to play with it.
Lou: I think that's a great distinction. The challenge versus threat. You shared how you help your clients, but, I mean, it sounds like you've been through some challenges and maybe things that seem incredibly threatening. What was that process like for you to self move through that?
Sheridan: Yeah, I mean, I would say that I'm still going through all of those things as well. We always are. What was that process like?
Sheridan: Can you ask something more specific? Because it's. It's like, it's a. It's really like a big.
Lou: Yeah, well, let's, you know, you speak to, you know, having to lose your hair, which I'm assuming is alopecia, and just that. I don't know how fast that happens, but like, how much, you know, how much identity we get in our look. And, you know, I went through the similar thing, but different, obviously. Much different being a male. And I still, you know. Yeah, all that. But like, that process maybe of, okay, having to let go and like, the. What came up in that. And then, okay, now I'm also doing this work. Like, were you. Was it while you're doing this work and how does that. How does that transmit to yourself as a coach? Is that more helpful?
Sheridan: I think so. I think I can compare two moments and that will. One where it felt like a threat and one where it felt like a challenge. And when it felt like a threat, you know, I was seven years old, I got a bald patch and my hair for the next 10 years. 10 years, yeah. It slowly fell out. So I finally became bald probably when I was about 18. And then I was just fully bald and very ashamed of it. I. I went to a women's circle once, and I said, I really want to go. I want to go to yoga. I've been practicing online. I really want to go to a yoga class, but I can't practice without my hair on. And I'm really nervous. And the whole women's circle said, okay, we're all going to go together so that you can take your hair off. And it was really beautiful. But it felt like a threat then because it. I couldn't. I was so conditioned that what. That my worth was in how I looked just as a human or as a female, you know, even a child. And that because my parents and the people around me were working so hard to get a cure, it instilled inside of me this idea that there was something wrong with me. Oh, we have to fix her. We have to take over to the doctor. They were doing their best. They didn't know that, but I was perceiving that as there's something wrong with me, so there's like deep, deep shame. And that made me feel that if I was myself, it was a threat to my survival. There's that very primal nervous system fear of if there's something wrong with me or if they find out that there's something wrong with me, they will kick me out of the tribe and I will not survive. So because I was in that there's something wrong with me, deep inside, I felt that everything threatened my survival.
Sheridan: Then.
Sheridan: Yeah, then the idea of going out and speaking, like being on a podcast, that's sad. Being on my hair, oh, my God. Being on the Internet without my hair, that's insane. Like, I would die. I wouldn't even consider it. I. Yeah, I just couldn't. I couldn't even consider certain professions because I thought that would be too challenging. With my hair, it was a complete threat. And then as I started doing more of this body based work and really genuinely disconnecting my identity from everything that wasn't love, then the next time I lost my hair, it became a challenge. And there was an episode that you did that I very much agree with that I think everyone needs to go back and listen to, which was how to accept judgment and criticism. To be honest, I didn't listen to the whole thing because I was like, oh, I agree with him. I know what he's gonna say. I kind of skipped through. I was like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, good. This, like, this man seems to know what he's talking about. And it's this disentanglement. Not to spoil it for everyone, but it's this disentanglement from everything that you say, everything you do, everything that you are, everything that you look like, it's not you. And the more that I healed and I understood, you know, I did the trauma healing, did the meditation, did all of the things that I now get to teach, thank God, when I started losing my arm hair and my eyelashes and my eyebrows, which is very difficult because it's your face and it's also how you keep dust out of your eyes. And that's really annoying. And I was on the Internet at the time, I was losing all these pieces of me, and I still had to show up and teach and show up and coach. And it was like, okay, this is a challenge. This is uncomfortable. I need to go sit with some uncomfortable emotions. I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm annoyed. But it's just the thing that I'm dealing with right now, and it's not a big deal, and it doesn't affect anything. And I could talk about it and I can ask for help around it. I'll get through it. Does that answer your question?
Lou: Totally. And thanks for. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. I can feel the depth of your experience as you share that. I'd love to talk about going. How you've been able to use this awareness, this, I guess, your own healing or somatic awareness, how you help other coaches or practitioners. I know you mentioned whether it's creating content or. Yeah. Maybe also speaking to earlier practitioners in the journey, which I think is probably more the audience of this podcast.
Sheridan: Yeah.
Lou: So anywhere you want to take that.
Sheridan: I'm just going to be inspired off of a client that I was just speaking with before our call. And she.
Sheridan: Yeah, I would say she's more in those earlier days. And she came to me because she's been wanting. She's an ayurvedic practitioner. She's been wanting to get her services and her coaching and her education out for quite a while now. And we originally met through some other online business thing back maybe about five years ago. And in those past five years, what she had been doing was kind of taking a lot of advice, and it was helpful sometimes. And she'd had some coaches and that had been helpful in some ways, but she kept finding herself. Either it wasn't working and that it wasn't actually bringing money and energy, she didn't feel successful doing it. She felt like it was pushing her roller up a hill and she was burning out. In my perspective, those things happening because she's using her energy incorrectly and she doesn't have a lot of things in place and it just wasn't effective anyway. So she's arrived to me, and we were talking today about the fact that she, like, opens Instagram and she immediately dysregulates and wants to put her phone down. But she's struggling because traditionally that's where she's gotten all of her clients. And she also, like making all these decisions about how much to charge and how much should the crotchy package be and all of these little things. And I Think there's a couple of things to do. Number one is that we have to make sure that we have an overarching sense of safety and ease as we move through the day. We all want to feel that our work is easy, and that doesn't necessarily come from making the work be easy or choosing less challenges. Choose things that stress you out a little bit. Choose the challenge. But we, Even though she's an Ayurvedic practitioner, even though she knows all the things that she did, all the yoga trainings, we've spent quite a few bit of time actually saying, okay, and how much are you checking in with your body each day and choosing activities that make it that are entertaining and challenging enough that we get a bit of activation, but that you can do relaxed. And there's that aspect, and that's kind of like that lifestyle coaching. Number two is that, particularly for her, we've done that trauma healing pillar, which is looking in and saying, do you trust your instinct? Do you trust your intuition? Do you trust your voice? Because you're using templates and you're using, you know, all of these, like, tools that other people have given you. And while that can be really helpful, because it does create a structure instead of using them as a reference or an ability to kind of learn a skill. And then it's like, when you learn to paint, then you have to go outside of the lines to create anything. She had actually started using that as, like, this is how you do it. And she had tried to follow it, and it was making her feel boxed in. And on that deeper level, it was just because she didn't trust herself to make good decisions. She didn't trust her instinct, she didn't trust her intuition. And so it wasn't. It hasn't been speaking to her.
Sheridan: And so we've done a lot of work to kind of create that connection of like, okay, I can trust that inner voice. And I'm gonna go. And I'm just. I'm just going to say what I. What I actually want to say, and not the thing that I think they want me to say. I'm just going to say what I want to say, and I'm going to let go of the rest. And that. Then we have to translate that and be like, okay, what are the structures? So, for example, she's not doing Instagram, she's doing podcasts because she. It gives her stress. Let it go, Let it go. Life is hard enough. Find something else that excites you. Pick a different challenge. It's going to be hard. There are other challenges. Pick a different one. She's doing email marketing and she has a ridiculously high open rate and click rate through on her email marketing. Because when she connects to an email, she can do just like what we did of like, okay, what is it that I want to send? And that's super helpful for her. And so it's like, regulate. Find that thing inside that's stopping you from, from being yourself and then set up ways that people can give you money for that.
Lou: Love that it's. Yeah, the, I think so many can resonate with the Instagram being just like a shock to the system. And you know, all of a sudden, I don't know how many times maybe you've shared this. Here I go on Instagram, like, I'm gonna do something, like I'm gonna respond to someone who messaged me or I'm gonna like just do one thing and I get on there and like, you know, minutes go by, I'm like, what? I came on here for something, I forget what it was. Then I'm totally like shocked into it. And so, yeah, it's a real thing. And I think, I think for anyone I love. What also reminded me of what you shared is the was actually insight timers quote today. So note to the universe, Joseph Campbell quote around like, if it's, if there's someone else's path, like it's not your path. Like if someone is giving you, hey, here's the blueprint and there's a lot of coaches that are going to do this and you know, maybe they can be successful and maybe you can be successful in their thing, but when they say like, do this thing, follow this thing, yeah, maybe you do it, maybe you're successful. And so what, like, what did you enjoy it? Like, was it fulfilling? Like, was it, you know, from you?
Sheridan: But like, what is successful? Because there's a difference between achieving something and there's a difference between I achieved a certain revenue, I achieved a certain amount of followers. That's an achievement. Is that success?
Lou: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us think that would give us something. But I just had this, I had another conversation just before you for the podcast around. Yeah, like choosing success, like success is internal and we get to make an understanding of what that means for us. And the more we feel like a success in our day to day, the more that's going to show up. I mean we're just going to enjoy it more. I mean it comes back to like actually enjoying the work and feeling like we're tapping into new sources of our own being and creativity and expression, and that's the joy of it. And yes, the money coming in is going to help us continue and regenerate and circulate. And so that's. That's an important piece, too. So it's like that balance, I guess. How is she? You know, I mean, you kind of mentioned it. Like emails. Another place where I love, like, I love to show up and sometimes I just take my emails and just throw them on Instagram and they never, you know, there's a different energy for sure. Yeah. Do you any other ideas around, like navigating the early coaches, like, you know, how they start bringing clients or. And we can also veer into the money piece and the energetic piece around, like pricing and whatnot, because I think that's an important place to explore too.
Sheridan: Honestly, my response to the. The initial coaches, the one thing that I really wish people had helped me more when I was beginning is you've got to get right with money and you've got to get right with sales. So I have two courses that are probably the best place to start. And, you know, you do this with whoever you want to do it with, whoever resonates with you. But I always recommend these specific courses. One is on sales and taking shame out of sale, out of selling and actually learning how to sell with that nervous system. Science of understanding the connection. Sales, a service. Sales is confidence. Sales is an exchange. And there's. We can learn somatically how to not bring shame into it, how to let it go and hold the part of you that isn't full of shame around sales because we've been conditioned to create that. We all have it to some extent. But more than anything, I would say get really right with money because, like, especially this audience and you and I, I don't know what your path would have been, but when we're following the joy and we're in the bliss and we're just like, oh, we love it. If we do not have a very. I call it financially fierce, which is also the name of the course, if we don't have a very financially fierce identity and understanding and being close with our money, then we're going to make decisions that aren't good business decisions, but that feel fun. And so the way that we have to do that is.
Lou: What's an example of that?
Sheridan: Yeah, an example of that would be maybe getting an assistant because you don't want to do a lot of things and that assistant is really helpful for you. And you're still serving your clients. But the end that you end up realizing that the. At the end of the month, there's not a lot of money left because you put a lot of money into the assistant or maybe a software that's really helpful, but it doesn't actually. The numbers, the expenses are too high and the income is too low for those expenses. So having. Developing the nervous system capacity to look at your numbers in a very meticulous, logical way. Money is inherently activating. You feel anxious around it, you want to avoid it, or you just go into complete shutdown. And so developing that and understanding, okay, what income do I need to cover the business expenses? What are the business expenses and what are the actual action items I need to do every day to get that income? Because a lot of the time, a lot of that uncertainty you feel, especially at the beginning is. And that like, stress you feel, especially at the beginning is because you actually, you actually don't know what your numbers need to be.
Lou: And so what is like a baseline? Like, I mean, I just. That practice, I think is important for sure. It's like, let's get clear. Let's actually have an idea of what are my expenses of personal. What are my business expenses? But it's like kind of, kind of business 101, like have your know your numbers and, you know, have that marker. Because if your mind doesn't even know, like, you're. You're kind of just flailing in the wind. So I think that's for sure important. On the sales. I know. I mean, I understand there's a whole course, but I'm curious because I think it is a big topic for people and having. And don't want to come off as salesy. And I get the sales of service and I get like all of that. That feels. Sometimes I have judgments towards it. Like, it's almost tropey, like, yeah, like, you know, do you feel like you can help someone? I feel like I can help someone. And. Okay, well then shouldn't you be doing, like, I like noticing judgment coming up around that. It's maybe obviously my own stuff, but that just feels like it's always the answer. And it's like, okay, yes. And how do you like, for maybe someone that is struggling with sales, is there anything more? Like, is there anything more to say about that?
Sheridan: Yeah, there's a lot. Okay. So judgment is always there to protect you in some way. So we all have to be mindful of our judgment. And like, oh, I wonder where this is. This is. I Judge outwardly and I project outwardly so that it stops me from feeling something inside. And so it's like, okay, what am I resistant to feeling that on some level? Take it with you. Everyone who's judging the idea of sales right now and hates that word, go do your work around that. Feel that thing inside. On a more tangible thing that people could take away from this. I would actually really encourage people to identify what sales wants to be for them. Identify what, what are your values? What do you want your sales process to be like? Especially now? Because sales that are sales or service. Yes, stupid. I agree with you. It's true. Fucking stupid. And identify what it is. I remember when I started, I decided that I wanted every interaction of sales to be very healing for each person. And that meant that I wanted to bring a lot of compassion and forgiveness into the process. Particularly because I work with a lot of individuals that have done a lot of work. And so I was like, okay, we're going to infuse compassion of like, you haven't done anything wrong. This is why you might be feeling this way. You. I believe that you can work through it. This is. And I made it. I decided that sales needed to be almost like consultancy for me. Okay. If I had these resources like you did and I had this problem based on what I understand of the market, these are the things that I would do. I can offer you one of these. Would you like to hear more about it? And very permission based. So identify what are the values. When I did Shameless sales, I wanted to educate around shame. That's what I wanted to do. And so that was the value that I brought in. How can I educate around shame? Because I think there's a lot of misinformation around there and it's actually very harming to people's nervous system. So bring in your values and put it as like almost consulting. If learn about that person, learn about what they need, what they're struggling with. Learn about what, what resources they have. Not only do they have a lot of money but no time, do they have free options like learn about them and then say, huh, okay, folks in your position, this is what I would do. But have enough confidence in your own work that you're willing to at least ask them if they're interested in your work. Because they probably are, because that's probably why they're talking to you. Doesn't mean that it's the best fit, but have confidence enough to ask if they'd like to hear a little bit more.
Lou: Here's A great example around a sales call that came up recently that I'm curious how you would navigate because I'm sure it's a common thing for some people. And when we talk about holding energy and we talk about numbers, we talk about the actual feeling of how, let's say how money feels. Like what a dollar amount feels to you versus me. That's always going to be so subjective to how much money you have, how your relationship to money. And so does it almost doesn't even matter what the number is. Sometimes with people like that, like, it's activating their nervous system. So here's the example. So I'm on a discovery call and we're having a conversation and like it. It gets to the point of talking about what it looks like and I say, okay, you know, six months, I charge $4,000 for coaching. It looks like this, this and this. And all of a sudden this guy just like, he, like goes into just like a. He's like, I. I can't even like, speak. It goes into like. It's clearly something shutting down in him. Like in hearing that it's. This is how much money it costs. And by the way, that's my current price. So if you hear this in like two years. And I'm like, Lou, what you charge $4,000
Lou: that. So my like, okay, there's a. My co chat is like, wow, something's happening here and I want to be with it. And there's probably something really juicy here if we digged in. So there's like my coach hat of wanting to, hey, there's something here. Like, this is activating. Let's work like this is. This is the work right now. But I'm in a sales call and so then I have this idea of, well, you know, I'm not trying. I don't want to. I am benefiting here and I hope obviously he's benefiting here. But there's like a self. I hold myself back from being. From doing that on the call, knowing that maybe by doing that he's going to then say yes to me and feeling like there's a manipulation happening. Right. That's like my fear about that. So I'm assuming, yeah, it's not. Sometimes it doesn't happen often. Right. Some people are like, oh, yeah, great. Like that's. That's the price and whatnot. So again, this is why it's so different. Every, you know, does. The number doesn't even necessarily matter. But yeah. Curious how you navigate that type of situation. And I'm Sure. Coaches here probably have experienced some, maybe that situation if you're, you know, offering like a more in depth, like longer term coaching package.
Sheridan: Yeah. Thank you actually for bringing that up. Because it's hard. Because it's hard as a coach who cares about people like you and I care about people and everyone here listening cares about people and you can see that they're in pain and they're struggling and you know that you can help them. So you want to do it, but it's not the correct container. You guys haven't said yes, it would be irresponsible. Not maybe it's manipulative. Put that aside. I don't know. It's irresponsible because he hasn't said yes to receiving your coaching. So. And you guys haven't set up expectations, you haven't, you haven't done the container. So it's irresponsible. So you can't, it would be unprofessional. And what I, what I usually recommend in that scenario is understanding sales is you're holding a container for a person to make a decision by seeing them deeply and asking them questions that lead to their best interest. So if that was me, I would actually shift my body back because I, if he's in a lot of. I need to ground myself. I would take my attention to my spine and pull it back down. I would take a deep breath and I've done this before. I did this on Tuesday night.
Lou: And.
Sheridan: I would share what I see. Like, I can see that this is bringing up a lot for you and that must be really scary. This is a really big, this is a really big decision and this makes sense. And I would validate that and provide that safety. Usually what happens is they're like, oh, they feel seen. Yeah, okay, now we've established safety to humans, connecting it's big emotions, but we've got it. And then I would probably ask them,
Sheridan: I probably ask them like a question. That question seems really organic. That happens in the moment. But probably a place where I like to land is that at the moment my coaching is 6,000 for six months. So it's almost like a similar place. But I would kind of. And I've chosen that because I believe that a coaching investment should be a little bit challenging and stressful, but not so much like that. It stresses you out and puts you under financial difficulty. So I usually ask, I say, look, does this number feel like it's activating in a way that it lights a fire under you or does it feel like it's too much and it's going to put you under significant stress. If it feels like it's going to put them under significant stress, don't work with them for that amount. That's not helpful. You're not going to get what you need to get done because they're going to be worried about the money. It's not good for either of you if. If it feel. If he's like, no, I just. I'm having a moment. Sometimes I just need to, like, kind of like work it through. Like, no, you know, I can do it. It does feel like a challenge. It just. I'm just having this moment. Okay, cool. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about what you need to feel secure. What do you need to know? What do we need to focus on so that you feel supported? But kind of like setting that boundary is helpful. But most of all, ground yourself. Remember that this is all their stuff. Reflect back to them what's happening. Create safety. Get curious. What do you think?
Lou: I think that's winner, winner, chicken dinner. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's. I love the. Just the. Because I think I've heard. I've heard of stories of people being coached in that financial situation. And so I appreciate you just noting, like, actually, that's not. We haven't agreed to that yet. Um, there's some, you know, there's some people that say, like, this is different theories on Discovery Call. I actually had another coach on here. It's like, he's a different type of coach. He's really more business ops. But you know where his coaching Discovery Call is. I'm showing you the product. Right? Like, I'm going to just, you know, show you the product. And I used to do this when I started coaching. It was, you know, a longer session. We would, okay, let's do 15 minutes of practice coaching so you get a sense of what it is. I've stopped doing that. And yeah, so it sounds like that's not something that you do. And in some ways I haven't thought of it being actually maybe not agreeable yet because they haven't said yes, but so I appreciate that perspective.
Sheridan: Yeah. And there is a time and a place and it depends on what the services as well. Like, sometimes people really feel great showing the product. I've always felt like that was me expending my energy in a way that I wasn't feeling nourished. So that was true for me. But if that's not true for other people, then go for it. I Also just think it's impossible to show what you'll do in six months of coaching in one session. It's insane.
Lou: I know that was my feedback to him. Yeah, I get how this works for very practical, tactical, but for a deep transformational experience. It demands the container, it demands the unfolding to happen in demand's life to, you know, to daily life to give back, like what's coming up to then bring in. So yeah, it's hard to make that all happen and puts a lot of pressure on us to try and make that happen in a discovery session. Do you have any other insight around like the amounts, right. Holding. Holding the amount of money and what do you maybe see in like the coaching industry? Because there's, you know, there's people for six months. Well, you know, they're charging and that's not to go down a whole rabbit hole of pricing and whatnot into the right, the right audience, the right consumer, the right type of person, what they're looking for. But just that idea of like holding more, allowing us to hold more or allowing us to charge more and stepping into that and finding that edge that feels like, embodied.
Sheridan: Yeah. Nervous systems feel comfortable spending money when they feel confidence in the nervous system in front of them. So you're always having this neur. This neuroception that's picking things up that we're not saying. So I would always encourage you to name a price that feels coherent. Not less and definitely not more, but definitely not less. But pick the price that feels coherent with your body so you can say it with ease. You just said your price with ease. I said like, that's, that's the price. That's, that's the correct price. And I recommend that people actually do that based on market value. Because what I do not like about the coaching industry that can feel like financial manipulation is I just like charge heaps of money because I can. No, dude, like what are you actually bringing that level of value and is that coherent with what else is happening inside of the market? Because we're not paying to like being your energy. Yes, yes, it's big and yes, it changes. This is my judgmental coming out.
Lou: Yeah, I hear you. Yeah.
Sheridan: Yeah, I just, I don't think it's. I think it can manipulate people and especially when we all have these like more sensitive parts of ourselves. And so I would say get curious about what's happening in the market. Charge a price that feels coherent for you and there can be a lot of shame marketing around like holding that amount of money. It's like your body has. Has an experience with money. It represents resour. It represents love. It represents security. It represents so many things. Your body has a relationship. Disentangle yourself. Rise above it. Witness. Okay, this is my body's relationship. This doesn't mean anything about me. It's literally my nervous system. How can I work with it and charge that amount for a little while, See what it feels like. See how it feels to say. See how it feels to receive. If you want to change it, change it. But whatever you're doing in that moment, you have to pick the price that feels coherent. Because if you don't do that, their. Their body's going to pick up on. Wait. Something that was. Her tone changed. Something was different. Something was off. She. That's not safe. Uncertainty. Not safe. I can't. I can't. No, I'm not gonna. I'm not going to invest in somebody who is shaky inside. It's unsafe.
Lou: Yeah. Beautiful. So true. Sheridan, thank you for joining. Is there anywhere else you want to. Any last words or places you want to point people towards?
Sheridan: I'm really happy that we went into the money conversation. That's so good. I'm really, really happy that we did that. I think that we've given a lot, so I won't bombard everyone, but I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I would love to hear everyone's questions, everyone's thoughts and concerns, particularly around sales. And so if anyone wanted to connect with me on Instagram, Sheridan, Ruth, or here's a better idea, come to my podcast, because we probably all don't love Instagram and so podcast is called Sustainable Success. Yeah. But like, come and hang out. We've got some free resources on regulation, which is really nice as well, and some other trainings that are free. But most importantly, I think I'm just grateful to you, Lou, for creating this space and particularly going back and listening to the other episodes. I think that you really marry the beauty and the essence that we all want to feel with the practical, tangible business without. Without making it feel like we're forcing something.
Lou: Well, thank you for that. That means a lot. That's what I'm attempting to do. So it's always nice to hear that. So thanks, everyone, for listening. Go check out what Sheridan's putting out and we will see you again next time. Bye, friends.
Sheridan: Bye.