Designing a Business That's Uniquely You w/ Bindi Belanger
Bindi Belanger, a coach and consultant to spiritual and wellness entrepreneurs, joins Lou to discuss the art of designing a business that's authentically yours. Bindi shares transformative insights on harnessing your unique energy type, applying personality frameworks, creating offers that align with your passion, and utilizing AI and other tools to grow your business. Tune in for actionable tips on being your true self in business and life.
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Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. I am your host Lou Redmond and today's guest is is Bindi Belanger and I've gotten the chance to co teach with Bindi. I've also gotten a chance to hire Bindi for a coaching session. So I can't wait to share her with you all and her knowledge and her gifts and her wisdom to help grow your business and the impact that you're making in the world. Bindi is a way shower, an insatiable reader, lover of stories, wife, mother, executive consultant, coach and creator. She's a multiple passionate being, but her greatest joy is helping people see their highest potential and sharing inspirational, empowering steps for them to move in that direction. She has had a 20 year career that has taken her through Fortune 500 companies such as the Walt Disney Company, UnitedHealth Group, Sony Pictures Entertainment, NBC Universal, DirecTV, Live Nation, Ticketmaster, and Experian. Bindi, welcome to the show.
Bindi: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Lou: So add in anything you like. How does one work at these big companies and then get involved in spirituality and then decide actually, you know what I'm going to help spiritual and wellness entrepreneurs. Those tend to not, not go together on face value.
Bindi: Yeah, it's a good question. It was definitely not a linear path. I think I did with so many people do, which is we get given guidance by our parents, by Our communities by culture, society on the path to a happy life. Right? I'm using air quotes, which is get good grades, get into a good college, get a good job, make sure that you prioritize career recognition and money above all else. And everything else will kind of fall into line. And you meet somebody, get married, you buy the white, you know, the house with a white picket fence and have kids, et cetera. So I was on track for that. And I had gone to a great school, I graduated, and before I graduated, I was working at Disney, so everything was moving along nicely. And I think at some point in my early 30s, probably around my Saturn return, almost exactly around that time, probably, I realized, I don't know whose life I'm living, I all of a sudden woke up and was questioning everything. And it occurred to me that I hadn't really consciously made all of these choices. I had just kind of been following the guidance that had been given to me and, you know, didn't really have clarity on what I actually wanted. And so that kind of began a whole journey of spiritual awakening and exploration and reading a ton. I met an incredible spiritual advisor guide who started off as a therapist and is now like my, my. My person that I kind of go to for. For guidance. And over time, as I spent more time in the space, I trained to become a meditation teacher. That's how we both know David Gandelman and just. Just totally immersed myself in this space. And I loved it so much that I was like, you know what? Corporate life is not for me. I'm out. I'm going to go into this spiritual, you know, work full time, and then just kind of stumbled along for, for some time until I realized it was marrying my background and my expertise and from a corporate perspective, with my passion for all things spiritual and wellness and realizing that, you know, I don't necessarily want to be the one teaching and guiding and facilitating. I want to help empower those people. It's incredible. When I meet people like you and David and, you know, Hillary, I want to tell everybody about you guys, right? I want to tell everyone about how you. Your unique approach to mindfulness or meditation or human design or anything is just so perfect for what they need right now. And so I thought, okay, well, if I can share my corporate expertise, my planning expertise, operational expertise with people in this space and help them with their businesses, then I get to kind of be in my zone of genius and get to help bring more awareness to incredible people like you. And so I think that's when I realized this is what I'm supposed to do. This is how I kind of marry those two worlds.
Lou: So needed people like me and many other meditation teachers need that sort of guidance for sure. Especially we tend to be more right brain. Not that you have to be left brain or right brain. And we're going to talk about personality on this conversation too, by the way, but we won't get there quite yet. But I share a similar passion, a little bit different in why I'm doing this podcast. Right. To help people that are starting out on their journey, empower them in different ways, and especially on the business side. For me, it was a mastermind group that I joined in 2014 that I know I've spoken to many times on this podcast, but it really highlighted and opened me up to possibility to some of the books that I'm probably seeing behind you to start reading and, and that intersection of business and sharing our gifts. And I had this kind of. It's definitely not unique, but it, I came up with it today meaning, like I'm sure other people have said it, but I had this realization today. I don't know why I'm saying this, but business is not about money, but business is about service. And so to look at our business and the way that money fuels that ability to serve to, to grow our, our business. And so that intersection, which is not often talked about in the meditation wellness world, is a big part of, of why I'm doing this podcast and leaning a little bit into this area. And so I see that need and I love that you're here sharing your own unique ray in that way. And so if I'm a up and coming meditation teacher and I come to you and I have no idea what I need, do you have any direction for that person? Because sometimes it's helpful when people know what they need, but often people might even be like, hey, where do I even start with thinking about how to grow this in a business lens or structure wise? So yeah, I'll let you take it from there.
Bindi: Yeah. So I work with everyone from like brand new into this space. They've decided they want to become a meditation teacher or coach or some combination of those things all the way to people like David who have established businesses and just kind of need help, kind of rethinking something or refining or optimizing something they've already got going and everything in between. And I would say the part that I love the most and is maybe what I would call my signature service is my vision clarity session, which what I love about this is that you can come without really having a clear expectation of what you're trying to get out of the session, but you can come and share with me just your background and, like, what excites you, what lights you up? What about your work gets you super energized? What kinds of people do you love working with? And so through a process of, you know, conversation and Q and A, like, I get to hear your. Your story, right? What makes you so special in this space? And then some magic happens in my brain or somewhere, right, where all of a sudden I can just see all the way forward for someone's, like, path, and I can see their potential, and I can see all of the different beautiful offerings that they can create. And so in that session, we talk about, like, well, have you thought about this? Or, what if you did this and pulled these two things together? What if you, you know, brought a little bit of your. This part of your background and this together? And my favorite thing is when people are like, oh, my God, I didn't think to connect those dots. Sometimes it's really hard for you to connect your own dots because you're inside. I think there's a saying that says you can't read the label from inside the J. You need somebody who can see it from the outside and kind of reflect back to you these ideas or these potentials that maybe you hadn't figured out before. And so with that, if something resonates, it's like, yeah, I would love to, let's say, bring mindfulness into the corporate space in a way that is really focused on helping executives get clear, focus on strategy. And I think one of the students in the class that we co taught mentioned that, and I was so excited for her, and she has such a great background to bring that to fruition. And so we started talking about, what if you did this, what if you did that? And so from there, it's. It's kind of this recognition of, yeah, that's the thing for. For that client. And then saying, okay, what are the next steps on that path? Not necessarily. Let's figure out everything that needs to happen in order to make that a success. I think that is, you know, can be overwhelming. I think it's really about figuring out what is the next step and maybe the step after that and just starting to move in that direction. And then, you know, people will come back and work with me and say, okay, I've done the first part. Now what. What do we do? Where do I go from here? What are some of my options from this place and just kind of meeting people where they are. Because if I were to say, okay, this is the idea, I'm going to lay it all out for you. I don't, I don't know what's happening in their lives. I don't know what type, you know, in a single session. I don't know what type of work they most enjoy in that space. Do they love doing one on one is a group, is it this? Is it that. And so we kind of work together over a couple of sessions to get that kind of vision into reality. So I would say if you come in and you don't know really where to begin, just I love to hear what are you excited about, what brings you life, what. And then I think experimentation is really, really big part of it, especially in the beginning. I think a lot of people make assumptions around, oh, I'm going to go do this, I'm going to be a one on one teacher. I'm going to teach in person ten times a week. And once people actually start doing it and have the experience of it, they start to realize, oh, it's not what I thought it would be. Or it turns out I really love this thing over here. And so through that experimentation, you can get a little bit more clarity.
Lou: Do you ever have the experience of someone saying, I really want to do this thing, like super passionate about it and you don't see it for them or you see where that could be blocked and there's this other opportunity for them and how do you handle that and or what happens? I'm just thinking of people whom I've worked with where they have their own process to unfold. I might have, you know, 80 business ideas for them. I might say, hey dude, 1x1, 2, 3 and 4. But they're going to go at their own pace. And I also wanting it to, yeah. Come from them in some ways and not just be my idea. So how do you find that? I know I'm asking you two questions at once, but how do you work with that? If you come across that maybe just the people you work with, where they are very motivated to do the things that you're telling them? That could be the case too, but sometimes people might be like, yeah, that's a lot. Oh my gosh, now I'm going to do all these things. I don't even, I don't even, you know, fear all the stuff might come up.
Bindi: Yeah, I think more than anything, people have to trust themselves. And so while I may share some Exciting ideas and potentials. If it's not landing, if it's not resonating, you know, you have to trust yourself. You have to trust that like, oh, that's a great idea, but maybe that's for someone else. And I really want to do this other thing. If what I'm saying in a session isn't resonating with someone, I'll ask more questions like, what about that? It doesn't feel good and maybe I've missed it, right? Maybe they, I share an idea and they're like, well, actually I don't like doing that format. Like, oh, okay, well what do you like? And maybe I've, you know, I can have taken us on a detour. We need to come back to something that is more important. I think there's also the case where people have 80 business ideas and they want to pursue them all at the same time. And I think certain personality types, which I know we'll get to are, are okay doing that. There are other personality types where it's kind of a recipe for disaster. And depending on your type and if we, if we know that and we're having that conversation and speaking that language, then I can make recommendations like just using human design as one personality framework. I don't recommend that manifesting generators build 12 week courses. You know, by the time they've got the idea, they're super excited about it. And then they have to commit to three months, months of showing up for this one area of conversation. They can lose steam sometimes along the way, not all the time, but it's very often that a manifesting generator, which I am one will say, okay, well now this month I'm excited about this thing and now I want to teach on that, right? So for manifesting generators, I tend to recommend like, you know, single workshops or like memberships or things like that where they can kind of bring whatever is the latest thing. But for people who are generators, yeah, 12 week workshops, like nine months, like David's doing, right? Go for it. You can tell you have the energy, you're designed for that type of thing. And so I will try to bring those types of things in and say, hey, I know you're feeling like you want to do this, but maybe try something else. I also think that part of that comes from them looking at other examples out in our space, right? And saying, oh, so and so is doing this thing. I could do that. Like, that looks like fun. That doesn't seem so hard. And it could be that that person's energy type or personality Type is so different from yours. And if you try to do the same thing, it may or may not work. You could probably force it and make it happen and, and, but you know, would you be burned out at the end of it? Maybe. Right.
Lou: So I have to ask because I just committed to a 12 week thing and I'm also not a manifesting jetter, I'm a manifest store. And I recognize also I like to create something and then do the next thing. And this specific one I'm creating, right. A little bit different than like here's a 12 week program, I'm taking some people through. It's more of organic facilitation in that people are kind of bringing their own stuff and there's going to be more organic conversation in it. But what would your advice be now? To get my own coaching sessions around manifestors in that realm or just in general, what's your advice to manifestors? I'm just going to go right in.
Bindi: Yeah. So manifesters are here to bring in these incredible ideas and concepts, but they're not here to always see them through to the end. I like to think of it as manifestors kind of, you know, do really well when they partner up with people like generators and projectors. Because if they can, you know, birth an idea, it's kind of like they need a nanny or something to kind of help take care of it and see it through as it, as it grows. Because when we were talking about one of the programs that you and I talked about, the idea was, yes, it's going to be organic, things are going to be group led. Right. You'll really kind of reflect what's happening in that particular group, that's perfect because you're, you can allow for whatever's coming through to come through. If you had predefined a 12 week, like we're going to talk about this on week one and this on week two, you'd probably vary from that like very quickly, like, you know what, I've changed my mind, I want to do this instead. And it doesn't leave that room for you to be a manifester in that space. And I think so if you were to build it and say, okay, I want this thing to keep going, but I don't want to stay attached to it. For manifestors, if you can bring a generator in to kind of carry it forward while you still kind of drop in as needed or as it's felt that that works really well for manifestors, I think. And I would say that for manifestors manifesting Generators like creating flexibility and building that into what whatever your offers are is really important because then you don' like you have to stick with some pre defined plan and if you let everybody know up front, hey, it's going to be fluid. I'm going to be, you know, in response to you as manifesting generators and generators are, then people know not to expect a lot of like predefined structure.
Lou: I told Benny before this, like last week we had a paid coaching call. This is just going to be a free one that other people are listening to. So thank you for that. I know only 9 or 10% of people are manifestors, so I'm asking a specific question. We're going to circle back, type in a little bit first. There's a process you took people through. When we were on our co teaching call, me and Bindi were co teaching a meditation school's meditation teacher training and she took someone through the seven why process. And I've heard these questions before of like if you and I've asked these questions before, what would this give you? But I've never heard it actually structured that there's seven and you should be keeping and knowing that there's seven. And so I love for you to just speak a little bit on this process. For anyone who might want to try this on their own or, or maybe even if you want to practice taking someone through it, obviously going through it first yourself is probably important. But yeah, I think it was, it was a powerful process and framework.
Bindi: Yeah, it's one that I really love. And it, it's ultimately centered around the idea that what we do and how we do it is far less important than why we do it. And in fact, if you don't have a really solid why as your foundation, the what and the how is going to change. And it won't have that solidity. Right. And it won't, it won't even really matter as much because if your why is flimsy, what you create is not going to have that, that essence, that energy that comes from when you're doing work that you really, really love. And so somet when we ask somebody, you know, why. And Simon Sinek wrote the book Start with why and he talks about how companies who are successful really have this core. This is why we're doing what we're doing and that customers resonate with that. I think that that's important. But from a, from the perspective of spiritual and wellness entrepreneurs, we have to go deeper and we have to have that why really anchored into something that is to our core. And so the seven whys is an exercise that allows us to go beyond what might be superficial or it may sound good. Oh, why? Well, I want to bring mindfulness to, you know, people in corporate America. I want to bring mindfulness to postpartum mothers. Okay. Why? Well, because postpartum mothers, you know, are really can be struggling with sleep deprivation and energy and like coming back to themselves and reconnecting with themselves at that time is so important. And so you kind of take people through this exercise of asking seven whys because each time you go and you peel the a layer back and you understand, well, why do you care about mindfulness for moms? Like, okay, well, when I was a mom, right. And so you go deeper and deeper and deeper. And at the seventh level is where you really get to this. Like, oh my God, this is why I'm doing this work. It's so much bigger, so much more profound than we originally think. Because the original first why, that's a good one. It's solid, right? It's, it's, you know, it's altruistic. It's, you know, you want to help people. It's, it's bringing your gifts to the world. But that deep, deep, deep why that is something when you anchor into, you just all of a sudden create the solidity in your offer or your business that is unshakable, right? And so because business is hard, entrepreneurship is challenging. And I mean in and of itself, it's a spiritual journey, right? There's so much that you face as an entrepreneur that people not on this path, like, don't have to, you know, grapple with. And so having that really strong why deep down like that deeper why helps you to stay on the path when things get difficult or when you start to have self doubt or when you start to question like, is this what I should be doing? Should I do something else? That deeper why is like it's, it's everything. And so the exercise kind of is a process to get to that deeper why. And I highly encourage people to do it with somebody else because there's something about being asked the question and being, you know, responding. You could also do it in your journal, but if you can do it with somebody else, like, it's, it's so powerful. And you can do it, you know, one person at a time and then switch. Yeah. And then put that stuff on your website because that's gold, right? Like that deeper why it it. Share it, tell people.
Lou: Right?
Bindi: When we were talking about the program that you were getting ready to share. The first thing I asked you is like, why, why this type of program? And when you told me it was like, this is amazing. You have to. Right. And it gets in. And I encouraged you to share it with the people you're inviting. That that is what hits us like, as individuals, like, understanding where you're coming from and like, why you're doing this work. That' that's what resonates so much more than like, it's 12 weeks and we're going to talk about these types of things and you will benefit in these ways. Like, that's all important information. But something resonates like with the why that is unlike anything else.
Lou: I can see that whole process almost being the copy of your website. Like the first why. Like, I want to do this for this, but it's deeper. I want to do this for this, but it's even deeper. And so you're kind of speaking to like, people at different levels. Like, oh yeah. Whoa. Oh yeah. Like powerful. So could be if you're looking for some copy too, to like, speak to other people, like using those sounds. Sounds great.
Bindi: Yeah.
Lou: While we're on the topic of content or copy, I know you help people with that as well. Or just creating an offer, creating a program, or maybe dialing in their marketing, saying multiple different things. You talk about helping people create something and promote something that they're excited about. Maybe we talked a little bit about it already and. And how you're able to see what people are. Are not seeing. How else might you help someone maybe either define a niche or create content or a program that they're excited about or get them re excited about. And maybe it's doing the seven whys. I don't know. But anywhere you want to take that question.
Bindi: Yeah, I think it's really about helping them connect dots that they can't see the connections between. Because usually when someone's sharing with me, well, I like doing this and I like doing that. And then there's this. And I had a lot of fun doing this other thing. And it's like I can just all of a sudden connect the dots. And I don't know how I do it. I couldn't teach it. But it's one of those things. Right? It's just I'm a 24 in human design. The 2 is like we just know how to do things and don't ask us to explain how, but it just. It just comes to me. And so I think, think you know what it is is. And you can do this with friends too. I think some people just need to hear themselves say it out loud and then someone can reflect back to them. But it's just putting things together in different ways. I mean, so much of creativity is that, right? It's not necessarily. I mean, for manifestors, maybe it's different. Like you're getting something completely out of nowhere that's just like this totally new idea. But a lot of creativity is combining things in different ways. And so that's what I do. And I think that sometimes when we're so immersed in the work, we don't notice the things that we are still excited about versus the things that we've just kept doing for so long and just think that's part of the job. And so I help people to kind of maybe see things differently. So if a meditation teacher has been doing a lot of pre recorded meditations, and sometimes they teach in a studio and then sometimes they do some coaching, I can hear when they're taught. And most people who are in this space have that like level of empathy and, and just energetic reception. Right. That you can hear or you can see when someone's body language and voice change in response to what they're describing. So if I'm talking to you about, like I was working on this spreadsheet and I had to update all this stuff and then I went and get. And then I was talking to Lou and we were doing this podcast, right? You can hear and you can see how the energy is different. So sometimes it's really just about picking up from people. You're actually really excited about this thing, but not so much that. And it feels like relief to have someone else see and acknowledge that. It's like, yes, I don't want to do that anymore. It's like, okay, let's figure out how you can stop doing that. Let's move your focus elsewhere. And so I think even, you know what I think that I bring that is unique is that I have a business background and I'm able to kind of pick those things up and so I can pull those things together. But I think you could also have friends in this space who are also good at picking up energy and just saying like, hey, can you just. I'm going to tell you about what I'm working on. Can you just reflect back to me what I'm actually saying with my energy? Right. That could be helpful too.
Lou: Okay. So you mentioned how many people in this space are sensitive to others. And I'm curious. I honestly feel like I'm less Now I'm comparing of course like I'm less that than certain other people and that comes actually from understanding different typologies. So let's go there because maybe we spend a good amount of time here because I never get to talk, I never get to talk to someone that seems like just based on your website where you have your enneagram, your Myers Briggs, your human design. Honestly the only thing that I'm not have never really jumped into is astrology. Even though human design is astrological based. It never just spoke, spoke, spoke to me to really dig in but the other ones have. So you're an infj. So when I hear you talk about that I'm hearing your kind of extroverted feeling like second secondary type or I'm blanking on my lingo but your, your primary is introvert intuition, secondaries extroverted feeling. And so like that's coming. I'm hearing that for me. I'm an enfp. So for me like I think when you talk about people that can have multiple things going on and like to have multiple things going on like I, I do like that and I think it's a FP thing to have, you know, all these ideas and stuff happening in the world. You're a. A 2 wing 3 in Enneagram. I'm a 3 wi 4 so I have to be careful of my reasons for doing things. I like attention, I like achieving and I want to. I get a lot of worth out of that. And so learning these tools has been so helpful in seeing myself in looking at my intentions. I think I spoke to this about on a different podcast but someone who maybe was a little less familiar. You're two wing four two is a helper so you have this natural helping ability. It's interesting actually to hear your corporate sphere in with an INFJ2 wing three because it feels like not. It feels like that's not the ideal space for it. Many maybe I don't know. Anyway, here's a question. So there's a lot of typologies out there and not everyone can go into everyone. It's taken years to really understand each one at different times in my life and they've all been helpful. But for business wise where might you send 10 people to figure out and how can knowing type whether it's human design, Myers Briggs Enneagram, how could that help them in their business and and their gifts that they're here to share?
Bindi: Oh my God. This is like one of my favorite things to talk about. I So I love all of the different personality frameworks. And I agree it's difficult to become well versed in all of them at once and or even just over time. I've been studying these for probably nine years across the different ones. Right? Nine years, not nine years on one. That's a lot. But I would say there's so much insight and self acceptance that to be gained from any one of these frameworks. And it allows us to start to think about if this is who I am in truth and who I love being one. First of all, recognizing like, this is who I am and I kind of love it. Like, and this is great. I don't need to be an E. I don't need to be a projector. I don't need to be a this or that. This is who I am. That self acceptance is really crucial and then saying, okay, if this is who I am and this is who I, you know, finally am accepting myself to be, can I design a business that fits that? Instead of designing a business that is, you know, so in the west, generally speaking, extroversion is more valued in terms of economic value, right? People who are out there, they stand out as leaders. They're, you know, networking and connecting with people. Like, historically, that's what's valued. And introversion is not typically seen as valuable. So there's a lot of books that have been written about introversion, extroversion, and the benefits of introversion. But just generally speaking, that's been the case. But if you are an introvert, there's so many amazing things that you could do in your business that don't require you to go and like, expend your energy in ways that would be completely draining for you. For example, I wouldn't recommend that introverts go and teach, you know, in person classes five days a week. That would be draining. So exhausting. Right? So if we know these things about you, we can help. I can help you. You design your business in a way that like, fits who you are. Instead of you trying to fit how you think everyone else is showing up. Because like I said, the extroversion, the people who are on big stages and are teaching big classes or doing other extroverted activities, those are the ones we see all the time. And so we think, oh, that's what success looks like in this space. I need to go do that. It's like you don't. You just don't see the people who are doing their thing without being on stage or without being in big groups. And so it is possible to find success without fitting into these different molds. And so whether it's the Myers Briggs, it's the Enneagram, I can take all of that and help you kind of figure out how to shape your business based on it. Astrology is one that I'm less familiar with. I have spent some time on it. It's not something that just really clicks for me. And I think that's. That's something I want to call out. It's okay if that's the case. Some people don't resonate with human design. Some people love the gene keys. Some people don't get the gene keys at all. But they're super into astrology or 16 personalities, whatever, like, is resonating with you. There's a reason it's resonating. And so, you know, follow that path and figure out, like, what insight can I gain from this and then leave the rest. Right. There's a lot of people that make personality frameworks confining. They're like, oh, well, I'm a projector, so I can't do these types of things. And you're like, does that. Is that true for you? Like, is it, you know, yeah, and there's so many. There's so much nuance in all these frameworks that you can't just take these big boxes and say, I'm only in this box, for example, I'm a manifesting generator, but my two channels are projected. And so what does that mean? When I think about, you know, the projector energy and those channels, I've shifted the way that I do business as a result. We don't need to get into that here, but that those types of things, like, if I just put myself squarely in one box and was like, I'm a manifesting generator and this is how I operate, I would have missed those little details that actually are important to understand. And so if you're not going to go deep into some of these frameworks, just take what resonates and like, leave the rest. And don't, like, overly least try to squeeze yourself into some predefined box.
Lou: Is there one that you think would be most helpful for people if they applied it into their business?
Bindi: I really like human design because it's so practical and specific. Even if you only understand the high level of the human design, which is like your energy type, your authority, your strategy, and your profile lines, if you understand those components, you can get a lot of really good insights into them. I had an offer a while back around productivity by design, which Is like, let's figure out how to set up your days and your weeks based on your human design so that you can be more creative and productive. Yeah. Just because even if you don't go any deeper, if you don't get into the gates, if you don't get into the channels, you can still get some valuable pieces of information that might shape how you operate.
Lou: Yeah. I found human design to be very practical in that way. It actually gives you things to look out for, to do, to, to say, you know, for me, I'm a manifester and you know, speaking things out more. And so it was more pr, it was more practical than the other ones in some ways. I've heard it. The Enneagram and Myers Briggs explain that. Myers Briggs explains how you operate and the Enneagram explains why you operate. And I found those two distinctions to be impactful. I find with the Enneagram it's like actually the hardest one to digest because if you start going down, I see a book that you have behind me that I have two personality types. If you start reading the different layers of integration or disintegration, it is hard. It's actually really challenging to sit with and like, look at. Wow. Like I, I, that's, that was me at some point or I have done. I have been at that level at some point. Like, that's, that's challenging to look like. So for, for those that really want to look at their potential shadows, check out the Enneagram if you want more practical stuff with manifesting. But I honestly I'll, I'll speak where it became a limit in my way. In some ways I, I joined like a manifester group or community and listened to this manifestor podcast and I heard the woman make a statement and maybe there's a part of it that definitely rings true. And I, so I've taken the truth of it. But it also noticed where it was like limiting me. But what she was like, manifestors shouldn't be coaches manifest or shouldn't be coaches. Like, basically like that energy is, you know, coaching is a very responding energy where you're there with someone and you're, you're not. And she was a coach. She did go through that whole process. So she has some like speaking from within, not from without. And it was something that at the time, like I think I understood where it was coming from, but it honestly negatively impacted me in many ways. Like it made me doubt, I had self doubt. I was going on to sessions being like, you know, maybe I should be doing other Things. And so all of these things, you know, trust your own heart, gut and intuition, let them be signposts. But you don't have to eat the whole meal necessarily. And so many people, especially in the human design world, you can get so boxed in where everything is like, like in this realm of how you're taking in information, like you're always making decisions or understanding people at this level. And that can be just exhausting I think, to, to be such a. So nitpicky and in things like that. But like with anything, the more we get into something, the more fine tune our awareness of it is.
Bindi: Yeah, I think with human design, the reason why it resonates with so many people is because when they hear the descriptions of the energy types and the profile lines, like there's so much resonance because they're looking back, right? They're looking at like, how have I been? And you recognize those energetic patterns in you. And when I looked back on like when was I successful, when was I happiest? It's like, oh, I was actually like living my design right? When we look forward about, okay now if those things in the past, like were true, if I then take all of the guidance that the human design framework offers and then try to do that going forward. One, they're like you said, there's so much detail and nuance that most people don't learn because either it's, it's, it's very complicated, right? If you're looking at gates and channels and like which planet is in which. This and that and like is it conscious, is it unconscious? And there's a lot there. And then trying to like fit yourself into this very complex like, oh, I do these things this way and that thing that, but I'm not supposed to and this and, and it's like when you try to use it to shape, shape who you're going to be, I think that's where it can get a little bit problematic because like you said, if it doesn't resonate, if it's not landing, it's definitely something for self inquiry and to say, hey, is it true that manifestors can't be great coaches? Because also we don't know what kinds of baggage shadow work, unhealed wounds that our teachers are bringing to us as they interpret these frameworks. Right. And so while that may be true for this person, maybe there's something in her chart that affirms that and that's probably true for her. You may have something in your chart that's like actually it's A generator channel or something like that. And you're perfectly designed to be a coach and you would have thrown that idea out just by taking her word for it. So I think it's really important to one, know that like, that's why I say take what resonates and leave the rest. Because unless you're going to do deep study on that, even if you do do deep study on this, you can't let that define your life. Right. It's, it's, it's supposed to be helpful, not restrictive, it's supposed to be affirming, not like preventative. Like you're not supposed to go do these things. So while I do use it to help shape my guidance, I always tell people like, try it out this way and if it doesn't resonate, drop it. Like, we won't do that. I have a lot of clients who are projectors and the whole projector thing is you wait for the invitation and a lot of people get confused about what that means. And you know, I asked them, like, look back and see when did you get the most aligned invitations? When, when did things start happening for you? What did that look like? Those are the types of things. And then, you know, use that as your kind of guide going forward. Not like you, you know, so for every projector, that version of an invitation might look slightly different. So I think, and then if projectors are like, no, I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to wait for invitations, you know, that's fine. Like maybe they're not ready to. Or maybe that's not true for them. Maybe, maybe their chart is wrong. Sometimes people's birth times are totally off and like it could make.
Lou: It really messes with you.
Bindi: Yeah.
Lou: If someone wants to learn more about human design or any of the personality types, where, where would you recommend they go? Blog, book, obviously. You know, do your charts. It's a bunch of free readings out there. But, but where would you suggest?
Bindi: Yeah, there's lots of great free accounts on Instagram. Of course Instagram is free, so learning there is simple and easy. I really like myhumandesign.com with Jenna Zoe. What I like is she has these bite sized courses so you can kind of just do. And they're not expensive so you can just grab the courses that are specific to your type. I like how she interprets the framework, which is a slightly different variation on the, the traditional the book. And then Hillary Jackendoff, who we both know is a phenomenal reader and she's. This is like, she's gifted in this space. And I think it's so helpful to get a reading because you might not understand how all the different pieces of your chart fit together. Where someone who's very well versed in this can say, yeah, you're a projector, but because of these, you know, you have these different defined centers that, like, it's going to be interpreted slightly differently than a projector with like, like these centers and it. And being in conversation and kind of testing things out and validating. I think is. Is really helpful. So start with a reading if you, if you have the means to do so.
Lou: I'll plug Hillary. She's been on this podcast as well, and I've done a reading with her, so you can go check that out if you scroll back and want to listen to Hillary. She's. She's the best. I love her.
Bindi: Yeah. So although she just had a baby, so I don't know if she's taking readings right now, so, like, get on her way.
Lou: True. Maybe not the timing. Trust the timing.
Bindi: I also found that, like, I did a reading with someone who had my same profile and type and the same incarnation cross, and it was awesome because I got to see how she interpreted those things and learned from, like, her mistakes and what she's tried and what works for her. I didn't just take that on as my own just because we were so similar, but it was. Is really helpful to get her perspective. So if you're a projector and you get a projector to do your reading, that's awesome. If you're a manifester and you get a manifestor to do your reading, also awesome. So if you can find those types of alignments, that's. That would be fun too.
Lou: Yeah. You're making me want to find a manifesto to do that because I think that would be. That would be really cool.
Bindi: Yeah.
Lou: So let's talk a little bit about productivity or tools. I know you mentioned AI and using Chat GPT to be a virtual assistant. What are some tools you think every meditation teacher should Just strong word. And I know you're all about finding your own stack and how you do things, so maybe you can speak to that first and then, you know, chatgpt, I'm using it more and more. It's been a very slow relationship build, but I'm finding some really great uses. You gave me an amazing use case when we had our session on developing just like some themes or ideas for the program. The mastermind that I'm creating and that's was Phenomenally helpful and just cool to see that you can do that. So maybe you can. Yeah. Share some of that. Because I know people in this world. It's. It's new for everyone and might especially be. Not a repulsion, might be a strong word, but there might be any, you know, this tech thing that's not real. Right. We're all about authenticity and. And, you know, coming from our heart. And now we're asking Robo to, you know, to create meditations, you know, so I'd love to hear. And I keep asking lots of questions at once. I apologize, but I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on it. Whatever.
Bindi: Yeah, no, I love. I love this question. Okay, so here's how I think about AI, because I know there's controversy, especially in our space, where, you know, it does. Using AI in certain circumstances kind of removes the human element. It removes, like, the. The energy passing between us. Right. But if you think about it this way, you know, if you work at a big company and you work in a department that has, like 300 people, and then within that department, there's a team of, let's say, 20 people, the leader of that team is not doing all of that work. The leader has a team of people, some of which are, you know, writing code, some are designing the product, and some are figuring out, like, the marketing of the thing, and the other people are doing customer service, right? So if you think of a company and all the different components of a company that people make and contribute to, those companies spend millions, billions of dollars on that workforce. So as spiritual and wellness entrepreneurs who may or may not have millions of billions of dollars, most of us don't. Not yet. Right? That if. When. When you look at those people that have become successful because they had leverage, they were able to go and get a team of people. Like, let's say I had three people just brainstorm with and get ideas from. And who I was like, hey, I want to put the pro. This program together. And I'm thinking about it like this, and I kind of want to do this. And I had three people just helping me out, like, well, what if you did that? What if you did this? Oh, let me write this copy for you. AI kind of takes that and condenses it into a single window, and it costs $20 a month. And you have, like, this infinite resources at your fingertips. And think of it as like your virtual assistant or a virtual team, where it's like, I am not an expert in this, or I'm not really familiar with that, but this tool can help me. So instead of thinking of it as I'm like outsourcing my, you know, my, the work that I'm doing, it's like, yeah, but some of the best leaders in our, in our world and are even in our space, they're not doing all the work. They're not, you know, editing their podcast, they're not doing this, the images for their Instagram post. They're not writing every single piece of copy on their website. Like they're hiring that out. Chat GPT is a $20 a month like team and so use it in ways to. The way that I like to recommend it is let ChatGPT or AI or any other AI tool do the work that you don't love doing. Because if you can offload that, you get to spend more time in your zone of genius. And that's what the world needs, right? If, if what you love doing is being in front of people, guiding meditation and how can you offload the rest of your work to whether it's AI or some other technology, right? There's CRM platforms to manage all of your customers. There's billing and invoicing, there's acuity for scheduling. We already offload a lot of that to software. This is just another way to say I don't really like doing this work. So I'm going to let AI help me out with this so that I can spend my time sharing my energy, sharing my gifts, connecting with people. If you think of it that way, then all of a sudden it's a tool that frees you up to do what you're really meant to, not all the other stuff.
Lou: Yeah, that's hits the nail on the head with. It becomes your virtual assistant. And so like you can have it do a lot of things. Now there's things that my virtual assistant does that I don't know if ChatGPT can do. And I, I tell her, I help. I say, like I ask you use her to, to. I ask her to use Chat GPT on different things. Like hey, you can use this here. Now just a more practical question. I'm still using the free version. Cheat 3.5. Do you feel it's worth, worth getting 4.0? And why is it worth getting 4.0?
Bindi: I highly recommend getting 4.0. There is a substantial difference in the language model or the way that they've trained 4.0 versus 3.5. You can test it out, ask it the same question. One of my someone that I work with was trying to get A summary of the Chalice and the Blade, which is a book written on a forgotten history of the goddess in our culture. And, and she asked GPT5 to summarize it. It got a really big error included a really big error. And when she called it out, it corrected it, which is fine, but it also just did a very surface level summary. When she asked GPT4, when I asked ChatGPT4, because I was like, well, let me see what 4 gives me. It was so much better. I mean, it is like, I would think of it like if you had, if you had a high school student help you write an essay versus a Master's in WR candidate, it's, it's different, right? The high school student might do a very good job and like summarizing or helping you come up with like different ideas or perspectives. The master's or PhD candidate, it's going to be a different level of quality. And I think for $20 a month, like we spend that much on Netflix and like a bag of popcorn, right? So it's, it's, it's, to me, it's so worth it. Especially if you are already paying a virtual assistant giving, giving her or him access to this additional tool to make your, you know, output even better. It's 100% worth it. Like, I wouldn't even think about it. Just upgrade.
Lou: I wish I was like an affiliate GPT4 right immediately. That's the first thing I'm going to do after I get off of this call. Because I was looking at it today and I was like, I'm using it more. And I think that'd be why I didn't, haven't bought it yet, because I just haven't been using it a lot. But I also think, and this is another principle, it's like what you put your money towards has more value in your mind. And so you're going to start using something that you're paying for rather than something that you're using for free. And so I'm going to definitely do that and I'm going to see that you gave me an awesome prompt. I'm going to see the difference in the prompt. I'll run it through four and see how, how different it is than the first thing it gave me.
Bindi: Yeah, and I think it's like a 20 experiment, right? If you try it out and you're like, it's not that different. I don't really need to pay for that on a monthly basis. Like, try it out, see what you, what you notice and what is different, what's not, and then make that decision for yourself. But then it's like a $20 experiment and if you don't like it, that's all you spend, is $20. But if you think about it in the context of $120 for the year, like, we have all spent $120 on like a one hour course or, you know, on a few books to help us learn something better or a microphone for the podcast, right? So, so I think it's 100% worth it. And if you're investing, if you're actually taking your business seriously, you're treating it like a business that should be the cheapest investment that you ever make.
Lou: Yes, investing is important for whatever reason. These little software things, like, those are the ones that I have the hardest time, like putting my money down. But I'll pay like an assistant for her hours of work, like without thinking, like, I'll go do this, I don't want to. Whatever your hourly charge, I'll pay coaches whatever they're charging. Like, I don't think about that for whatever reason, but something about having to do another subscription and maybe I just don't want. I still do my own finances, which maybe, oh my gosh, I have a great question for you that's maybe more personal we can ask afterwards. But I still do my own accounting. So I like go through and I do every single charge. And maybe I just was like, is this worth me, like putting a line to $9? It totally is. But it's just funny how our, our minds work. While I'm talking about money accounting, what do you see spiritual entrepreneurs getting wrong maybe in general or, or maybe getting wrong or challenges they have with money or challenges you've had with money. It's a, you know, interesting topic in this world.
Bindi: That's a good question. I think something that I got wrong and have shifted is thinking about money first as like, okay, how can I, I create an offer that will be high revenue generating for the mo, have the biggest impact, right? Like, without first thinking about what do I love to do, what do what excites me, what would I show up and do even if I didn't get paid? There's a huge difference in what we create. When we create from a place of like, oh, I need to make money from it versus I'm going to do it no matter what. And if nobody ever sees it or nobody ever shows up, like, I will still be glad that I did it, that those offers resonate way more. And then in and of that like, in and of itself, because of that resonance, they do better, you have more success. And that those, those ideas, those offers are the ones that actually generate more money instead of the ones that are like, oh, so and so over here is doing this. Like, I'll create something similar. I'll do it, I'll show up, I'm gonna sell it, I'm gonna do the launch. I'm gonna, you know, just, just. I think that's the other reason why people get so weird about selling. It's because they don't truly believe in what they're selling. When you have something that you're so excited to do and you're like, I don't care if two people show up or 200, I'm going to show up and it's going to be so much fun. That comes through so clearly in your copy. It comes out. And when you show up on Instagram Live, it shows up. When you get on discovery calls with potential clients like, it, it comes out. And we should know that of all people, spiritual and wellness entrepreneurs should know that the energy in which you do a thing is how people rece. Receive it. Right? When you come at it from a place of, I need to do this to hit my revenue number, like, people feel that way. They may not consciously be aware of it, but it's felt. And they're like, I can learn something from that person that's probably good, versus they just like, you're just so all about it. They're like, I need whatever this person is selling. Like, I'm in. Just sign me up. So that's what I would say is lead from what brings you life, joy, excitement, creativity, you know, passion. Bring that forward, forward. Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. And I, I feel strongly that that will lead to success, reach.
Lou: And I'm feeling that. And sometimes you have to go through a few offers to really understand that. You know, with this current offer that I keep alluding to, that you help me with, I really feel that. And I can feel the difference. Like, there's no attachment. I send this out, someone says no, it's like, okay, what? Like, there's no, like, need. There's no, like, hoping or like, I hope they say yes or yeah or, or even doing it. You know, one time I ran. Ran. I had done a men's work training and I'm. And even though my audience is a good amount of women, but funny enough, mostly men have been responding to my mastermind. But anyway, I was wanting to do a men's group. But it was coming from like, I learned this thing. I guess I can do this. It'll make some money. So, like, that was the energy I was bringing into it. And it was a complete flop for a different reason. But there was just. Yeah, that never should be an energy that you do something with, especially when you get to create your business. It's your unique creation. You don't have to listen to anyone. You get to do it your own freaking way. And that's what's so cool and a blessing that we get to do, I think. And I get it because it's what you lose when you move out of being an employee is you lose having this knowing what you need to do. There's a comfort in knowing what you need to do. And I go to work and I do the thing that I know I need to do, and there's a dopamine hit in that. You got your job done. And that's amazing. And so we lose that and it's scary. And that's a whole another flex to start to learn. Right. How do you. Maybe we can talk about tools here in a second that would help this. Like, how do we motivate ourselves? How do we tell ourselves what to do when there's no boss telling us to do? And this is the power in having a coach, having someone you're seeing that can kind of be your de facto boss without, you know, really being a, you know, probably better than a boss in many ways because you're still empowered. So, um, I don't know how I went off on that tangent, but you get to create your own thing, your way. And so Bindi. Are there other tools you mentioned? Some. Some different tools when we were co. Teaching. I'd love to just. Maybe you share some things and people can kind of search and find things that work for them. I. I agree. Like, I. I use these different tools for different reasons in different ways, and somehow it kind of works. I'm definitely not the most organized person. If you were to seen the back, you were to see the desktop on my MacBook, you'd be like, what the heck? What is going on here? Anyway, I digress. Tools.
Bindi: Yeah, there's. There's so many different options. I think it's really about finding one that feels fun and, and easy for you to use. Some people who are really like, you know, super organized and like all the technology stuff, I love Notion. It's so customizable. You can use it for your entire life. Life. And so that's what I use for those who like tech, but they don't need all of the bells and whistles and don't want to customize too much on their own, I would say Trello is a great option. It's just simple, like digital cards that you can move from one column to the next to kind of track the progress of your activities. And then I'm a big fan of post it notes. I've got them all over my desk. I like I said when we were co teaching, I kind of go back and forth between different tools like Notion and my iPad planner and post its and just finding what feels good and easy and that you'll stick with. And it's okay if, you know, like me, especially if you're a manifesting generator. If one month you're like, I'm all about the post its and then the next month you're in Notion and then the next month just stick to what you're doing for at least long enough to complete some major milestones or a portion of your goal. And I think that if you don't have a big attachment to the tool, just find something that's the easiest for you to use because if it's easy, easy, you're more likely to use it. So anything that you can have on your phone. Some people use their Notes app and that works for them. They just create a note for each day of like, here's what I got to get done. Some people want to have everything kind of. They want the big picture, quarterly, annual plans broken down into smaller goals, broken down into like, you know, monthly or weekly goals. That works too. But if you, if that feels oppressive or restrictive, just simplify it down. So it's really, really experiment, right? Find what feels fun and easy and then just try to get consistency with, with that.
Lou: Something I've been doing in the last couple months. And I don't think I've shared on this podcast. So for what it's worth, I'll share it here is on Sunday evenings I'll sit down on my couch and there's such a different vibe. And this is probably something I've never talked about with other people, like when you're working at a desk versus working at a couch. And I think there's this, this, there's. It can be like a selling to people of, oh, you get to work, you know, from your bed, in your pajamas. And some people maybe that, that works. But when I'm really doing deep work, like I kind of take it like a professional and I want to have a professional space and show up like a professional and do it that way. And so when I get to do things that are more like on a couch with my computer, I almost feel like I'm not working. Almost feels like it's relaxing, even though it's like you could be doing technically the same thing. So that's more of a personal thing. But on Sundays, I sit on my couch and I'll just go through my. I'll look at my calendar. I'll think about the projects that I'm working on or want to work on or the little different things. Like, you know, for this week, like on Monday, which was yesterday, I wanted to prepare for interview with Bindi. So that was like a task. I use Trello specifically only for to do stuff. So Trello is like a specific to do list. I like, like seeing what I have for the week, moving it to. Okay, today, moving it to done. So it's very simple in that way. So on Sunday, that's what I'll do. I'll look at my calendar. Okay. When can I work on a newsletter? You know, I'll throw that. Okay, work on newsletter. And they'll. I'll add things during the week because if I work on the newsletter, I'm gonna have to add. Edit newsletter. So I'll kind of add that as it goes. But I found just going into the week with some prep, even though it's not all of it, even though I won't get to everything, like, there's things that keep sitting on my trouble that I think I'm wanting to do, but I just never get to. So I found that to be something really helpful in a very simple way. It doesn't take very long on a Sunday evening. It might be the last thing someone wants to do on a Sunday evening. But that little bit of sharpening the. The ax, so to speak, before you enter the week, I've. It's made a big difference in going into Monday and not feeling this anxiety Monday morning of what am I going to do this week? Or what should I work on done. So that's been. That's been really helpful.
Bindi: Yeah, I highly recommend that even doing that at the end of day Friday, then you can enjoy the weekend saying, like, I already have my next week figured out. I don't need to like, have any kind of background anxiety around it. Because sometimes that happens when you're just like counting down till Sunday evening, like, or Monday morning. If you get it done on Friday, then you're like, I mentally get to let that go until it's Monday, so that's another option.
Lou: Totally. So one last question or two questions, I guess in one, a business book or two that you'd recommend to specifically spiritual wellness entrepreneurs. And if you'd like a spiritual book that has impacted your life and you know, sometimes the spiritual books can actually have the biggest impact on our business, so they don't always have to go hand in hand. I see. I love your, your books that I'm looking at behind you.
Bindi: Okay. The book, the business book that I think is a game changer that I wish I had read, you know, years ago, but it wasn't out years ago. $100 million offers by Alex Horoi.
Lou: Yeah.
Bindi: Amazing. And he just released $100 million leads. I would start with the offers because. And he's releasing them in sequence. So definitely get that book because it will help you think about how to craft coaching packages or like meditation retreats or whatever you're offering to your audience in a way that is going to resonate so much more than just like, come coach with me, you know, that's it, it's. It has a great structure for that. And then you know what? The, the book, the spiritual book that has just been on the back of my mind that I've already recommended a few times in the last couple weeks is the Surrender Experiment by Michael A. Singer, who wrote the Untethered Soul. I love that book because he started off want a yogi meditating by himself in the woods and he ended up running a billion dollar software company. And it's just the journey that he goes through and just constantly surrendering to what life put on his path and how we think we know what we want for our lives. But life often presents us with new, unexpected and amazing opportunities that take it in directions we couldn't have even, you know, conceptualized. And so it's just a constant reminder that even when you set goals for yourself or create these big plans, to always trust that when something shows up and is just persistently like asking for your attention, that sometimes you need to kind of surrender to that and like allow life to guide you instead of you trying to plan everything out.
Lou: Amazing. One book that I have read. So a Certain Experiment is. Is amaz. One of the coolest stories ever. Michael Singer reads the audiobook. I've listened to the audiobook. I haven't read, read the physical book, but it's just an unbelievable story. I followed Alex for about a year and a half and in that time I've seen him so just continue to blow up. He Creates. He has a lot of free YouTube content on building business. He has a personality not everyone's gonna vibe with. I'll, I'll, I'll say that here if this is new a new person for you. But he's a lot of solid stuff. And I've debated actually getting that book. I was like, should I get this book like, like and thinking about a coaching, like a new coaching. Like how I'm promoting coaching. So I'm actually going to pick up that book. I have things to do after. I'm going to buy chat GPT4. I'm going to buy books. So I knew this was going to be super valuable. Bindi, is there anything we didn't get a chance to talk to that you want to share about? Floor is yours. I have, I have as much time as you or if you want to just point people to where they can get to get more of you. That sounds a little weird but can experience more of your, your, your work. Book a session with you. I recommend everyone doing that and yeah let you kind of speak to what has not been spoken or send people to kind of what you're creating. I know you're creating something cool that you told me. I don't know. Oh, I think that was private. So maybe you aren't ready to speak that out loud yet. This will be out for like a month or something. So maybe in that time it'll be out.
Bindi: Yeah, I'm planning to open up, open it up soon. But basically I want to offer an opportunity for people to come and just ask me questions a couple times a month for no cost, just to show up and say, hey, I'm struggling with this or I need a tool for that or what should I think about as I'm putting this offer together to offer that, you know, twice a month for free. So I'm hoping to launch that in the next few weeks. And so because I really want to make these, this type of information more accessible to people I know not everyone is at a place in their business where they can go hire a coach or consultant built in and kind of make that, that type of investment. So I want to make that option more available. So yeah, I'll be doing that soon. You can find my information at my website, lotuspathway.com I'm not really active on Instagram these days, but maybe that will change in a. You know, I go back and forth between being a hermit, the two and the human design and like showing up and being all networky and that's the four in my profile. So I'm on Instagram Otis Pathway and yeah, I'm looking forward to making more affordable options available very soon.
Lou: Amazing. What a. What an offer. And I'm sure I'll pop into to that when it's there too. So amazing. Thanks Bindi for all the work you're doing, for spending time here and to everyone listening, sending you lots of support as you grow and you your spiritual business journey.
Bindi: Thank you so much. This is such a great conversation. Like I could. This is. I could do this all day. Seriously.
Lou: Me too. Me too. That's why I got a podcast on it.
Bindi: Of course. I love it.
Lou: Thanks Mindy.
Bindi: Thanks.