Legal Foundations for Meditation Teachers, Coaches & Yogis w/ Cory Sterling
This is an informative episode with Cory Sterling, the founder of Conscious Counsel. We discuss everything heart-led entrepreneurs should consider in protecting their businesses from legal concerns. In this episode you'll learn about:
- The risk of using generic legal templates and the benefits of tailored legal documents that protect your intellectual and creative properties
- The importance of trademarking business names, logos, and slogans
- How law can be fun and lead to greater success in business
- The need for a unified qualification system in the yoga and coaching industry
- Broader challenges within the yoga and coaching community
GIFT FOR YOU
If you’re a meditation teacher or coach who wants to create unique meditations people listen to over and over again, enroll in my free course Meditation Script Mastery
Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. Welcome to another episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. We have a unique show for you today. We have on guest Cory Sterling. Cory is a lawyer, small business owner, group fitness instructor and yoga teacher and author of the yoga Law book. He operates an online law firm called Conscious Counsel and loves working with heart leading business owners. And he's going to chat with us law, which is, I know, a topic that I tend to not really think about. So we're going to be thinking about it today. Welcome to the show, Cory.
Cory: Thank you, Lou. Thank you for having me. And hi, community, everyone who's listening, I'm honored to be here. And I, yeah, I'm just stoked to show up and be of service.
Lou: So when I hear a lot of people that go to law school or people that have left law, often they figured out that wasn't their path, that was maybe their parents idea or they did it because the prestige or the money or whatnot. And I'm curious for you, was any of that there when you followed that path or was this, there's this other intuitive drive to follow law?
Cory: Law first came to my mind. I used to work in the NFL, so I worked for the Oakland Raiders in their media services department. And from there I worked a little bit with NFL media services in NFL UK. And during the time I did a lot of informational interviews and most of the people who I spoke with, like I spoke with Roger Goodell and some other executives in the NFL and at ESPN, everyone gave me the same advice, which was go to law school or get an MBA if you want to keep moving up in professional sports. So I didn't do it immediately, but I worked in sports and then I became disillusioned and just wanted to travel the world for a while. And then I was like, oh yeah, like law school. Everyone said law school. And when I was in law school, I was super, super passionate about education and studying. And I think there's a cool thing about studying later in life. I think I got into law school at 29, so I really could appreciate what it meant. You know, I traveled the world and I really could appreciate what it meant to study and to learn and to grow your mind. And I, like, I loved, loved, loved law school. And I was certain I was going to come out of it and be a criminal trial lawyer. And then I moved to Vancouver, British Columbia. I spent one day with a criminal trial lawyer. I didn't even make it past lunch. I made it like 2 hours with him looking at what was going on I was like, okay, this isn't me. And then inevitably, I got swept up in the idea of sort of the corporate rat race. And everyone I spoke to was like, oh, you want to be in corporate law? You want to be at a big firm, you want to keep your options open? So I went, and I did that. And then I didn't like it. So I went to work for a smaller law firm, and I didn't like it. And I was about to quit law, but one of my mentors encouraged me to, you know, do what I wanted to do, work with who I wanted to work with, and build a business the way I wanted it to be. And that from that came conscious counsel, working with heart leading entrepreneurs, writing the yoga law book, working with a lot of yoga studios, retreat owners, Pilates studios, boutique fitness health coaches, healing practitioners, meditation practitioners, meditation studios, and traveling the world while doing it. So that's sort of how I got here in my roundabout way.
Lou: When does that interest to yoga or that world open up for you? Is there a personal attachment that you had, like, as far as your own healing work or your own support that you were receiving, maybe through yoga classes you were attending? Because, you know, for many people, it could be like, that's not even a the radar. But for you, it sounded like you had some experience where it's like, okay, there's this underserved, maybe. Underserved, I don't know, um, community population that could, could, could have some support. Um, yeah. Do you have. I mean, you're. It sounds like you are a yoga teacher. So is that happening already?
Cory: Yeah. For first and foremost, when I was in law school, I found yoga, and I started with hot yoga, which I feel like is a great entry point for a lot of people. And what I noticed was I was like, oh, my God, there's 90 minutes of the day where I'm not speaking, where, like, there's just silence going on in my brain. And I was just like, that was my first point of mindfulness and consciousness and sort of inner silence. And then I just got really, really into it. And then when I was working for the corporate law firm, I was spending all my free time at the yoga studios and following teachers and reading about spirituality. And then it just happened that, like, there was an injury with my favorite teacher outside of the studio, and no one signed waivers of liability. And I realized, like, hey, this is a really, really big problem. I went to speak with my teacher afterwards. I was like, hey, do you realize that you're completely at risk for this? Like, no one signed a waiver. We're not in a yoga studio. And I just realized, like, there was no awareness whatsoever. And then I was like, then I just like. And I was teaching group fitness in the community, and I just spoke with, like, everyone who I worked with. I was like, what legal documents you have? What are you using? You know, are you aware of this? And I realized that a, was completely underserved and b, there was just complete, you know, ignorance, for lack of a better term, about the laws and professionalization around these parts of the industry. So that's sort of when I set out on my crusade. So it was a combination of naturally being drawn to it and building my own practice and becoming a certified yoga teacher and going to Vipassana and becoming a Pilates teacher and all this sort of stuff with realizing, like, hey, no one's paying attention to these people, and they're the ones who are making the world healthier and going to be the positive change on a day to day basis, so someone needs to work with them.
Lou: And so I'm a, I don't know if you follow human design at all, but I'm a human design manifester, so I tend to, like, not like rules or structures and boundaries, which law can sometimes be. It sounds like I'm sensing you see that more and maybe the wellness side, or you use ignorance where people just aren't really thinking about this. Is that accurate that you're not? You don't see a lot of people spending time thinking about it.
Cory: Yeah, it's not, look, it's not their fault because think about it. If you're a great, if you're a meditation teacher, if you're a yoga teacher, you are trained in a particular practice. And when you become an entrepreneur and decide to start working with clients, nobody hands you a manual. And it's like, hey, these are the legal repercussions of everything that you're doing. So it's, I mean, ignorance maybe isn't the right word, but it's just like there's just an unawareness and it's outside the periphery. It's outside the paradigm of how we operate. And the truth is, if I didn't go to law school and if I didn't do this every single day, I would never think about these things. Like, I would never think about if I'm doing a yoga, a yoga class in the park. Did someone sign a waiver? I just think about it because it's my life now. But what's your, what's your profile number for human design.
Lou: Oh, four six.
Cory: You're a four six? I'm a four six. Manifesting generator.
Lou: Oh, wow. That's kind of close. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's cool. Maybe we're doing. We're doing one of the four lines. I think it's the four line we're doing. I forget I got a reading at one point. I need to, like, refresh on that. So why do, let's say someone like myself? Why would someone like myself reach out to you, you know, as opposed to. What I have right now is I have a insurance policy through a forgetti, this is how much I think about it. I have some insurance policy somewhere that's out there, and I have, you know, a coach that I've worked with. I kind of liked his documents, and I made it my. My documents in a way, with my words. So I'm sure other people listening maybe have done something similar, like, okay, I have the insurance. I have documents from, you know, a coach I worked with, and I just use it for my clients. And so where could we be astray in doing something? In doing that?
Cory: Yeah, that's classic. I love that because it always happens that whenever I have to fix problems for people who are in trouble, it's always like, oh, I like my coaches documents and I borrowed them. Like, that's. That's one of the. One of the three classic ones. It's either like, I don't have. I copied it from the Internet or I borrowed it from a coach. And because you think the coach is, you look up to your coach, you assume that the legal documents they use would be good, but coach isn't a lawyer. So the answer is the risk that you're running is that in the event that there's a problem or an issue, you're going to have to rely on those legal documents to get you out of trouble or to prevent something really bad from happening. And the reason why I wrote my book, the yoga Law book, was in the first year of my practice. I just saw all of my clients making the exact same mistakes, and I was like, hey, doesn't everyone know that they should fix this and that they need customized agreements? But basically you're going on and you're like, oh, cool, nothing bad has happened yet. And I'm using these agreements that I think are good, and I've got insurance. I'm not sure if it really covers everything that I do. And so you're sort of just, like, cruising along in this zone where nothing bad has happened and there's no problems when and if there's a problem and 70% of my work is fixing and solving problems, I prefer the 30% where I'm proactively helping my clients get set up from the start. But yeah, when there's a problem, because you don't have agreements that are specific to you or your business or may not be, at best, legal practices or may not have been drafted by a lawyer who understands the industry when the problem arises, you're going to have a significantly weaker legal position. So you don't know what you're like, you don't know what you're signing, you don't know if you're getting your clients to sign, you don't know what intellectual property you own, you don't know what activities are covered from your waiver of liability, all that sort of stuff, which, like, as long as nothing happens, that's great. But the moment something does happen, then you would panic. You'd send me an email. I would say, hey, Lou, why don't you show me the agreements that you signed so I can help you? You're going to send me these crappy agreements, no offense. Sorry. And then I'll just be like, hey, man, sorry. Like, you're at fault. You have no recourse. You misclassified your workers, you didn't outline the risks properly, whatever it is that happened. And then we're going to negotiate a settlement. We're going to hope that insurance covers you. But insurance also only really covers for liability. There's other things, like if you think about the relationship with your clients and when you have a service agreement and how much they pay you and if it's on a recurring payment or not and all, like, there are legal nuances to that that you need to be in alignment with and that you need to make sure that you're following. So if someone signs up for an annual membership or, you know, a monthly membership and says, oh, actually, I didn't show up the last three months, but you still charge me. So now I want all of that money back. Like, a, insurance isn't going to do anything for you related to that, and b, unless you have a strong legal position, you're going to have to, you know, they can do a charge back on their credit card and you have no recourse. So it manifests in a lot of different ways. But yeah, I hope that answers your question.
Lou: Absolutely. I'd love to hear. Maybe we'll go through, go through a few different demographics, because although they're all similar, I think there's different issues but it sounds like you've written extensively in your book about this. So maybe just starting with yoga teachers or studios, like, what are those common mistakes?
Cory: Yeah, the common mistake for everyone is the same, where you don't have customized, specific agreements that were drafted by a lawyer who understands the industry. So that's always what the problem is, because this is the truth. If you're a yoga studio or a yoga teacher, you don't ever want to be thinking about the law, and you don't know anything about the law. And the expectation is not that you're going to become a lawyer and go to law school. The expectation is that you grow the business of your dreams, you're living a life that you're passionate about, and you're building the community that you want to build. Law is one piece of that puzzle. The same way having an accountant is when you have an accountant, you're like, here are all the numbers. You figure this out, and these are my goals and this is what I want to do, and you help me. It's the exact same thing with laws. So if you're a yoga teacher or a studio owner, I always encourage clients as a starting place to write down on a piece of paper the different relationships you have in your business. So who do you have a relationship with and what expectations do you want to communicate openly and honestly in that particular relationship? And the clearer and the better that you can do that, the easier everything is going to be going for you. And that if there's a problem with your team members, with your clients, with a business partner, you have something that's specific towards the relationship that you're trying to create. Just to wrap all of this up, typically how I would work with a yoga teacher or yoga studio owner would be a waiver of liability specific to all modalities, pre recorded, online, in person, outdoors, acro yoga, aerial, silk, whatever it is that you're doing, a privacy policy and a social media disclaimer for your online relationships, personal information that you keep, an independent contractor or employee agreement for studios, this is a really, really, really big issue with serious repercussions. And then a client membership agreement like, hey, five pack, ten pack, one month, six months, three months, one year. What are the rules? Everything as it relates to that. And then the next steps are, if you run a yoga teacher training, do you, have you, have you registered a copyright? Are you, you know, when you're giving people access to your materials, is all of that protected? So it can be really complex, but in a simple way, it's you just have to think, like, what am I doing? Who do I have relationships with, and how can I communicate that openly and honestly?
Lou: So beyond the physical studio or yoga studio, maybe we'll pause right here. I don't know if I'm my Internet. Lester, make sure you get this in the edits. Beyond the physical yoga studio, what do you see, let's say, online, maybe I understand the common mistake is not actually having the proper documents and getting set up. And so what have you seen as the consequences of that? Let's say, for maybe meditation or coaching that is just on an online basis? What are some of the things that people are coming to you when it's the 70% of trying to put out a fire?
Cory: Okay. It will come if it's coming from a coaching perspective, a lot of the times it has to do with the scope of practice. So what are you qualified to do, and what are you actually doing? And is what you're doing something that actually requires a license or some form of qualification that you don't have? So that's a lot of the fires that I put out in that way. If you're an online meditation teacher, there aren't too many. It's more straightforward because it's just a service agreement and a privacy policy and a waiver. And really that's it. But the bigger issue that I see come up has to do with intellectual property. So that's registering a trademark as an example. So when you register, when you don't register a trademark, and this is like, this really happened in a big way. After COVID, it used to be that people would only work with who's in their neighborhood, so I'm looking for a meditation teacher or for a coach. Oh, this. I saw flyer in the local coffee shops, and I'm going to work with that person. After COVID, now, everyone's doing everything online, so everything they find, the marketplace is now, like, just massive. One issue that I'm constantly having to solve for problem that I'm solving for clients is that they don't register their intellectual property. So they don't register a trademark. They've got a really cool brand, they've got a big following. They're doing big things, and then they don't register the trademark. Someone else registers that trademark before them, and then it's a really long and expensive process, and most of the time, they have to change their branding or invest tens of thousands of dollars to fix it. So that's something that I see from, like, online only. That's one of the risks that, again, in your mind, you might think, oh, well, I started this, and I'm not aware of anyone else who's using it or might have registered, but the government and the structure has a different expectation for how you should behave.
Lou: So the, I want to ask both of those. I want to ask questions on both or two of the things that you shared. The first, let's go back to scope of practice. Okay, so I'm going to where my mind goes. Imagine a situation where what is happening for the client where they're suing or approaching what it's like, hey, I signed up for coaching and now you're doing therapy with me. And I'm, is it like a, I'm in a worse state type of thing and going at it like, I just love. Is there like a granular example of, like, when this happened?
Cory: Yeah, totally. So usually it will be with clients, difficult clients. So there's two issues that will come up. One is that there's some governing authority where it's like, let's say the therapy association of New Jersey, and somehow they find out what you're doing, or they see you on instagram, they're like, hey, you know, you're not in our database of licensed professionals. You're not allowed to be doing this. And then they can fine you. They can send you letters, they can send you cease and desist, all that sort of stuff. That's one way that this manifests. And I've been through that with clients before. The other way is difficult clients. Right. Because that's really what the big issue is. So if you're working with someone who is unstable and you've been working with them, and maybe they get too close to you, maybe they get triggered by something that you're working with them, something that's going on, then they can just start kicking up sand and really make a very, very, very big problem and say, oh, but you were only hired for this, but really you were doing this. And I'm going to report you and give me all my money back, and I'm going to go on social media and talk about how terrible you are. And at that point, that's when I get the frantic emails or frantic phone calls. And at that point, you just want to be able to, you need a lawyer. You need someone not emotionally involved. You need someone rationally to approach the situation and say, hey, before we work together, this is what you sign. This is what you agreed to. This is what we did. And now you're alleging all of these things. If you continue. You know, we can claim, counterclaim for defamation or slander or whatever's relevant in that particular instance.
Lou: Got it. Okay. That makes a lot of sense, that the difficult clients. I could totally see that. Just one person to stir something up to make it difficult. Yeah. To create a whole thing. And so trademark. Do you mean, like, trademarking, like, your name? Like, is that what you mean when you say intellectual property?
Cory: Yeah, it can be your logo. It can be the name of your business. It could be a slogan that you have with your business. It can really be any of those. And the whole point is that when you have created something, that the market, the world at large, recognizes your goods and services with that particular name. You're encouraged to trademark it so that no one else can copy you. Because if we didn't have trademark laws, everyone could just copy whatever everyone's doing. And there are significant legal rights that come with a successful trademark registration, and that is that you have enforceable rights, which means that you have rights to protect what you've registered. It also means that you get exclusive use. So it means that you're the only one who's allowed to use it once you've successfully registered. So I've just been through issues with clients where they've got a good business, they've got a following, they've got a community, they never think to register a trademark. And then, boom, we get a cease and desist letter that we have to take all of it down, and that someone else has registered a trademark before them. And it's just, we call it a race to the registry, which is, like, basically, whoever registers first has the best starting position. And the longer that process goes on, the more difficult it is to challenge it. So it relates to a logo, a word, or a series of words.
Lou: The name wouldn't count. Like, I couldn't trademark Lou Redmond. That would be weird.
Cory: But is that there are some certain you can. So if it was like, Lou Redmond meditation, that would be an example of something that you could register. But remember, a trademark only relates to specific goods and services. So it's not like you get Lou Redmond for everything, but you could get Lou Redmond for a podcast speaking about meditation and mindfulness as an example.
Lou: Got it. Okay, so another. This is fun. I love using this podcast to just get, like, free support for myself. So for. I have this. I have a mastermind group, and even beyond the mastermind, it's starting to become just like a mantra, because it's been a big part of, I think, how my journey has grown and success has found me where it has. It wasn't. It took a while and I realized that it's been this slow juicy growth. And that mantra, you know, is part of our mission statement in my mastermind group and just seems to really resonate that this. And so there was a fun yesterday. Just yesterday, one of our members was like, we should create a shirt that says slow juicy growth. And I was like, oh, wow, that's for kind of, that's kind of cool. And then I was thinking, I actually thought of this literally yesterday without even connecting, that I'm talking today of like, that's something like I could trademark or should trademark or is that like an example of something like that?
Cory: Yeah, totally. It is. So let's say, yeah, so let's go. Let's use slow juicy growth. And why would make sense to trade market. So the reason why you would want to trade, let's say you decide that you want the reason, the benefits to trademarking slow juicy growth is that a, what it means is in the context of coaching as it relates to health and wellness professionals. Right? I don't know. My screen just does that. So as it relates to that, what it means is you're the only one who's allowed to use slow juicy growth in that particular context. If you also wanted to make t shirts or cups or coffee mugs or hats or whatever, you're saying to the world, hey, whenever you see slow juicy growth, it's related to Lou and my business. And so let's say someone, let's say there's someone in your group who has been with you for a while, and then they said, actually, I'm going to start my own group, but I want to call my group slow juicy growth. Right. And they register a trademark before you. It doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter that you were using it first. If they submit the application, then in order for you to challenge it, you're going to have to get drawn into a legal process that will cost four to five times the original cost of registering a trademark because they're already one step ahead. So it's sort of like, when it comes to trademarks, I always let clients know. It's sort of like a tattoo test. If it's something that you know that you're building your brand on and it's something you know that you're committed to for the foreseeable future and it's something that you love and that you want to protect, then it makes sense for you to register that trademark. So even just hearing what you're saying, let's say you wanted to start a coaching program called slow juicy growth, right? Or a subset or an online course called slow juicy growth, whatever it is, when you're allowing someone to use that term or participate in that program, you have to ascertain the legal rights around it first. So it's like, hey, cool, I own this. I'm going to let you use it, or I'm going to let you participate, or I'm going to, you know, if you come up with a slow juicy growth certification as an example, you can only let people use something that, like, tangibly, you have legal rights associated with. If it's unregistered, you just always run the risk of anyone else being able to take it. Does that make sense?
Lou: Totally makes sense. And you're making me think of where that's coming from is the mastermind that I have is called meraki mastermind. And Meraki is actually a really popular word. Are you familiar with the word meraki?
Cory: No, no.
Lou: It's way, it's way more popular than I knew, actually. Cisco has Meraki as one of their systems that runs things. It's a greek word that means to do something with love, passion, and put a piece of your soul into what the work you're doing and kind of captures the essence of what that group is about. But you're making me think. I tried to get merakimastermind.com comma, that wasn't there. And I'm just wondering, I was like, maybe no one really knows about me rocking mastermind. It's kind of like an underground thing. So it's not online where people can find. But I'm wondering if that's another thing where it's like, yeah, that having more of a, you know, a registry where. Because what you're saying is someone can register marking mastermind, come at me and say, you can't run Meraki mastermind. You can't call it 100%.
Cory: Let's say someone listens to this. Let's say we can register. You have to do a search in, you know, you have to do the appropriate searches in the USPTO to see what else is out there. And if there's anything else that would confuse the public. Let's say Meraki mastermind is good. Someone's listening to this. They're like, boom. Meraki mastermind is the thing. They go immediately, hire a lawyer, register the trademark, go through it. They could once that, once they submit the application, at that point, they can send you a letter. They don't have perfect legal position, but they're already ahead of you. And now in order for you to challenge that, you're going to have to get involved in a legal process. And it's just not fun. Like, it's expensive and it's not fun. That's why it's like if you have something, you know, you're building your brand on. For me with conscious counsel, I registered a trademark before I launched the business, before I put it out that I was like, conscious counsel is what I'm about. This is who I am. I'm going to build everything around this. And so I registered even before I launched the business.
Lou: When did you launch the business?
Cory: 2017.
Lou: It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant name. I mean, everyone, like, now everyone uses conscious, like everything, like conscious sales, conscious this, conscious this. It's a great brand to get early on, for sure. And for those listening that are going to run away and take Meraki, mastermind. I don't want your karma. I don't want your karma. You're gonna, you're gonna have, it's gonna come back to you. And that's sometimes where this is my naivete, and maybe you've hear people like me, but like, I, and maybe you've seen where they were naive, but my naivete is like, hey, I'm doing good things and I'm trusting in the, I'm trusting in this universe that, like, I'm putting my energy into good places and, like, good things are going to come back. That's my naivete of, like, why do I like, like, the trust in that things are going to work itself out and that's, I know that's incredibly naive. So I don't know if everything you're saying is speaking to that. I'm sure.
Cory: Yeah, it's, it's very common. It's very, very, very common in the, in the yoga space, in the meditation space where again, we don't, we don't naturally think about these things. Like Meraki, mastermind. Awesome. I'm helping people. I'm doing something great. All of this is here, and I'm a good person and I've got good intentions, but it's also, we, all of that exists, but we're also playing, we're playing in a different game. Like you're, do you accept money from people who are in your mastermind group or is it just a pre mastermind group?
Lou: I do accept money, yes.
Cory: Okay, so you're in a commercial relationship. So now once you're in a commercial relationship, there's certain rules that apply to you. And just saying, like, oh, I'm a good person, so I don't have to pay attention to those rules. Doesn't apply. And also, what I say to people is like, this is your moment. You've now heard the information. There was a time where you didn't hear the information and you didn't think about it. And if there's a sign that you were looking for, this is the sign saying, like, hey, get everything organized. Make sure you have all of your ducks in a row and take care of what needs to be taken care of so that you can focus on growing your community and being awesome.
Lou: So I hear you, Corey, and I'm a listener, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. And, yeah, I think I know legal zoom. Like, legal Zoom is actually how I started my business. And so what is the difference between, okay, I'm going to go search this and do this on legal Zoom versus what you're going to offer, you know, to, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
Cory: Yeah, those are, it's like any sort of service. So if you think about what would be the difference between working with a yoga or meditation teacher one on one versus going to YouTube and putting in yoga class and getting a yoga at the end of the day, that's what it is. Also, the ramifications of law are a little bit different because legalzoom doesn't understand the specifics of you being a yoga teacher, you being a meditation teacher or a wellness coach. Legalzoom has a package that they're just cookie cutter, sending out to everyone. The whole thing that we do at conscious counsel is that it's 100% customized, it's 100% personalized. And again, it reflects the relationship that you want to have. So legal Zoom is like, here's the relationship. Like a general relationship, and go and take it, and you can use this. And for us, what we're giving, what we offer our clients is in addition to customized, specific agreements for the relationship you want to have. B, it's industry specific, and c, we offer edits, revision, support, and we have a relationship with our clients so that when a problem comes up, like, even this morning, I have a client who I've worked with for a couple of years is having a crisis. You know, it was, she's just like, I knew like this. The crisis happened. She emailed me right afterwards. We hopped on a call. I understand her business. I know what she's going through, I was like, cool. Like, I got this, I'll take care of it. Whereas when you don't have that relationship with an individual or people who understand, excuse me, the industry, then it's like, oh, where do I go? Who do I talk to? I'm so confused. Then you can end up working with someone who doesn't support you and. And, yeah, that's how it makes sense to me.
Lou: So what are the ways you're explaining. Explaining it, for sure, or three simple ways that people can get legally protected.
Cory: What are three ways that people can get legally protected?
Lou: Yeah.
Cory: Okay. To get legally protected, have customized, specific legal documents that are industry specific and reflect the relationships that you want to have. Register all of your relevant intellectual property and work with a lawyer who understands the industry and who wants to see you succeed and who can take away all of your problems.
Lou: Do you have any more stories of fires that you've put out of the clients that have gotten sued and kind of the experience that they had to go through?
Cory: Yes. Some are good, some are bad. I've got a lot of stories when it comes to classifying workers as contractors or employees. I've been through a couple of times where the studio did not properly classify the workers, so they were treating them like employees, calling them contractors. They got reported, they ended up getting a tax audit, and they had to, you know, pay eight years of back taxes plus, plus penalties, plus fees. And for a couple of them, they went out of business. As a result, in terms of injuries and issues, I've been part of some ongoing settlements and negotiations for clients where someone got injured in the studio and the waiver of liability was generic and was not specific to the injury that took place, which, again, is something that goes, if you have that document correctly, it's five minutes and an email from your lawyer. When it's not, it's, you know, can be upwards of $40,000, plus stress, not sleeping, thinking that the world's going to end and that your business is going under and not being able to focus on anything else. A lot of times I have issues with studios or teachers, with clients who they don't want to work with anymore, someone who is making the space unsafe or unsettling or treating teachers disrespectfully or treating other members disrespectfully. And without a written agreement, it's very, very difficult to enforce that. So, yeah, you could, you know, with the trademark issues, clients who have to completely rebrand because they didn't register a trademark. So in every area of what I've spoken about on the privacy side recently, a client who did not have a privacy policy and their business got hacked. All of the information was compromised. I have very little recourse of how I can help them without the appropriate legal documents. So in all of those areas, like, in the past three months, I've gone. I go through everything every three months. And that's why I also love taking time to educate people and explain, like, hey, these are the things that you should take care of or be mindful of.
Lou: And so you talk about on your site, making law fun. Yeah, none of this really sounds that fun to me. So what does that mean?
Cory: Yeah, the fun part is that, you know, Lou, you and I have a chat and you're like, hey, I've got this awesome group and this is what I'm doing. And I'm like, wicked, man. You need ABCD. Sign up in five days. We'll have everything taken care of. You never have to think about this again. And if a problem comes up, it's not your problem, it's my problem. You forward me the email, I take care of it. Like this morning with my client, massive crisis. She's, like, about to go on a cruise with her family that she's been looking forward to for a year, and she's so excited. And then this problem comes up. I was like, go have an amazing vacation. Forward me the email. I'll take care of it, of all of it for you. So that's the fun part. It's like, for me, my relationship with my accountant is working with my accountant fund. Not really is the fact that I never have to think about any of that stuff. And there's someone that I can for all of my emails to. Fun. Yeah, that is fun.
Lou: Got it. So what is something you love about the yoga, meditation, wellness coaching industry?
Cory: One thing I love is that I travel around the world and I always go to new studios and new classes and practice with new teachers. And that it's super inspiring me to see the different communities that people build and how they build them differently and how positively my day is affected. Every time I take a class and whenever I'm drafting a document for a client or assisting a client, I'm like, okay, maybe I can't. I'm not at their studio right now, but I know that today I'll go on their website, I'll see the schedule. They've got three classes today. You know, they probably have 20. Like 60 people are going to that studio. And I know how good I feel after class. And I know that for those people who are going, they're going to feel that good after that class. And that's what lights me up. Like, let's keep everything going. Let's keep the lights on for everyone. Let's keep making, you know, just if we can improve everyone's day a little bit every day, the compounding effect of that will be so strong.
Lou: What is something about the yoga meditation coaching world that you see issues with besides that they're not protected legally?
Cory: Well, I'm going to answer the question, and then, Lou, I want to hear what your answer to that question would be as well. But I think the one thing where I think if there's an opportunity for the yoga coaching meditation world, it would be some form of unified body process system. It's so scattered. Like, the whole qualification thing is, like, anyone can teach yoga, anyone can teach meditation. There's so many different types of educational ways for people to interact, and there's, like, a lot of positives about that. But I think that as a whole, like, as a commercial industry, it could be strengthened by some form of unification of there being sort of one process that's easier for everyone to follow. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on the biggest challenges in the industry are.
Lou: Yeah, I mean, I'll speak to yoga specifically first, because I am a former in studio yoga teacher, and I think the issue is that if you really want to teach yoga and that's what you want to do, the grind of supporting yourself doing that is incredibly hard. Like, you are jumping from studio to studio to make $35 an hour, maybe up towards to maybe $100 an hour if you have a good class, depending on where your studio is, depending on your experience. Da da da da da. But still, that's going to be a grind, and it's physically taxing on you. Especially. Maybe you're teaching hot yoga, as I was, or you're doing all that time. So I think there's. There's an issue in that space of that it's a grind. And part of know how I was able to get out of. Not that I wanted to just teach yoga. That was a part of my leg, of my journey, but it was never my main focus. But to, you know, you really need to learn how to get. Get your entrepreneurial spirit on and figure it out on your own. I just. I don't see people who want to do it full time, doing it in a way that's sustainably sustainable and healthy. Um, but yoga is not, I would say, yoga I was in that world, but I'm less in it now, so I could also, there's also some probably counters to that that I'm not, at least I'm not seeing. But that's what I noticed I were to give an issue with the coaching world is that it's promoted as this kind of, in some ways, this, like, I have an issue not to, not to. You're in Mexico right now and traveling and whatnot. But I think when what's promoted is actually serving you most. And not to say that we don't fill our own cups and serve ourselves, but so often, um, coaching is promoted like a lifestyle and, like, you know, quantum leap to have this, these, like, six figure months and, and it's all about, okay, my money, my lifestyle. I want to be on the beach and work from anywhere. And for some people, that's great. But if we're thinking, well, the way that I really approach this, and I've seen it, man, like, I come at this from someone who realized I had done a mushroom journey and realized where greed was sipping into my being, I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I was able to see it and it wasn't super strong, but I could see how the energy of, like, let's just keep charging more for our packages. It's all about money. People have to invest more. I could see how that was, um, getting into, like, poisoning my. Myself. And so I see that because people are getting into it with this, at least the coaching world, yoga is a little different, but coaching world, this kind of a way to get rich. And I think, yeah, it's just, you know, I say this to just come back to that. If this is something that you feel divinely inspired to share and the generosity and the service of it is the fulfilling part. And, yes, we can be supported, well, financially. It's what, you know, I'm trying to do on this podcast so I can speak a lot of, there's a lot of issues in the coaching world, and I love having the conversations on this podcast when I think of meditation world. So they're all kind of different worlds to me, even though they're come together. Um, I don't know if I can speak to that one, but, yeah, coaching and the yoga, those are my, those are my two, two responses on that.
Cory: Got it. Well, look, I think it's so interesting that you share all of that. And on the coaching front, I was just in Bali for five weeks, and there it's like I met, I met a lot of coaches and every. And look, and it's like every coach I spoke to, everyone was about 100k months. And it's so interesting because I travel the world, I go all over and there was not one other place that I went to where a, there was that many coaches or b, people would be like, yeah, like 100k months. I'm going for it. Like, I'm working. I'm going to make it happen. And this is what I'll say. I live in financial abundance, so I'm all about people achieving whatever financial goals they have to put in front of them and I'm all about that. What I will say also is that I don't focus on someone who is just like, oh, I'm building this business because I want to make a whole bunch of money and not be of service. Like, I don't think I'm going to intersect with that person. I feel like you and I are connected because in some way we're on the same wavelength and in the sense of service and information and putting things out there and helping people. So sure. Like, as a whole, the industry may have elements of that, but for me, I just don't focus there and I focus on, like, I've worked with, maybe I've had five or six personal and business coaches and all of them have, like, taken me from here to there. So I know the value of coaching. And also some of them, like, I caught them at different stages of their journey. Some I think I caught when they were just starting, some I caught when they were already at the top of their game or just getting better. And, yeah, coaches are the most valuable resource available. So, yeah, so I just think all of that's really important and there are those people who, who do those things but, like, I'm not interested in them and I don't think I'm going to cross paths with them.
Lou: Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. That's, that's so interesting. I'm actually debating. We're debating right now. My partner has been to Bali twice and we're getting married in July and we were wanting, I haven't been there, but we were planning to do our honeymoon there and there's a part of me that's like, we haven't booked it and is it, I want to go, but what I, I don't know, there's this, like, there's this, I know, I love it. But then I hear, like, you know, just all of these coaches just, you know, doing, doing this thing and I, and I don't judge. I'm a coach. I can speak to something cause I'm inside of it and, yeah, but I hear these spaces where it's just all about, like, hitting your revenue goal. And I get it. It's a nice mark. And I'm into financial abundance, too, man. And yeah, I just. I'm speaking also from, like, yeah, how I was able to check myself and there's so much value in this work. So I'd love to hear maybe how you have decided where your own business growth. So now we're kind of speaking more meta. Like, it's not necessarily about helping other businesses, but you start in 2017. I think you getting on podcasts like this is brilliant, right? Speaking to people who would be needing this. Probably even the podcast hosts that you speak to as well. And so maybe you take this any way that you want, like, how have you marketed or grown your business? And maybe if you talk about coaches you hired, like, what kind of coaches were they? You know, feel free to drop their name if you want to shout them. Like, how have they helped you? Because I love hearing those examples of, like, how you built this business to where it's at right now.
Cory: Definitely. I'd be happy to. And also, like, Bali is an amazing, magical place. I have. I have the most, like, the only word of describe it as magic.
Lou: So it's.
Cory: Anything in life there's gonna, you know, there's. You're gonna run into certain people who are up to certain things and you're gonna put Bali's like, it's just. It was magic. I was in a booth for six weeks, and I. And I had the best time. So I would say, if it feels right for you and your partner to go there, you should check it out. In terms of my business, I always come back to just this idea of
Cory: as I can for my clients every day. And I really believe that, like, everything takes care of itself from that point. Instead of being like, oh, I want this revenue, or I want this, or I want this growth. It's just, it always.
Lou: Would you say that? Sorry, can you say that one more time? I think you got cut off when you said the core things.
Cory: Got it. So the two biggest things are to be of service every single day and make sure that I'm offering a value proposition to my clients. So, like, are my clients getting the appropriate value in working with me, and am I being of service and doing the best that I can do for them every day? And I think that when you do that, naturally everything that flows from that intention will take care of itself. The business will grow, you'll be able to expand, you'll have new relationships. And it's just like anytime that I'm caught up in some form of goal that I'm working towards, I just always peel it back and being like, am I being of service? Am I hiding? Am I providing the highest value proposition as possible in terms of the benefit of coaches? What they really, they just, for me, they're more paradigm shifters than anything else where I'm so in my business and I've so, you know, even though I work on my business, I'm still in my business. And sometimes it just takes someone who has a different entrepreneurial experience to look at what you're doing and be like, hey, like, what about this? And it's just like, when you hear it and you see it, it's so obvious. But until someone points that out to you, you can't. So I think coaches are really beneficial from an accountability standpoint. But mostly for me, it's been, what's been great has been shifting paradigms and pointing out blind spots. That's really where I've seen success with my coaches.
Lou: And so when you seek one, you're looking for a business coach or personal coach. Like, is there a specific coach that you've sought out? Sounds like business more so, yeah, with business, with personal.
Cory: I had like a coach, his name is Simon Pelland and he has a program called Love over fear. And that was like, on the personal side for my personal intimate relationships, he was like so insanely helpful. And I worked with him for about two years. And it's amazing how, like, working in that area helps. It overflows into the business side. And then on the business side, I worked with a coach named Josh Church who doesn't coach anymore. And I worked with a coach named Vince Gabriel. And for me, the business coaches are important because it's like, just look at someone who's two steps ahead of you if you want to know what the path is. It's like, I don't have every answer to everything that it is that I want to do. But a lot of the times you see other entrepreneurs who are just a little bit ahead of you or have been walking path a little bit longer than you have. So just the same way that I can look to someone who maybe is just starting and say, okay, have you built your mailing list? Do you have your lead magnets dialed? Do you have a specific niche? All that sort of stuff. So that's where coaching's played an effect for me.
Lou: What is business advice you wish you could have given yourself in 2017 now?
Cory: Oh, well, there's too much. But the only piece of advice that I would give to myself would be keep going and continue enjoying the journey. I think we're always going to be progressing towards something. We're always going to be pursuing something new. And I think that if you can be present in doing whatever it is that you're doing, and I'm here today, I'm trying my best. I'm having fun and just trust that everything will work out. And that's what I say to myself today. I would say that to myself in 2017, and I said that to myself this morning where it's like, okay, I'm going to try all these different things, and today's a new day, and I'm creating from the present moment and just like, enjoy it, have fun with it, try your best, help other people. Like, it can be really simple or it could be really complicated, and I prefer simplicity.
Lou: You have video ask on your website. I know someone else who has used that before. It's a cool tech tool to express to people and answer specific questions people might have. Is there any other tech in your business that you think might help coaches, meditation teachers, online practitioners that you found useful?
Cory: Zoom slack video ask Zapier Typeform.
Lou: Beautiful.
Cory: Yeah.
Lou: Well, brother, it's been really fun having this conversation. Is there anything else I missed or anything else you want to share that might be helpful for people? I think you shared a lot of Lou.
Cory: I appreciate you, man. It's. I love how before we recorded this, we took a breath together and I think that's like, that's the microcosm for everything. If before we're doing whatever we're doing, if we could just stop, breathe, set an intention, then there's so much that we can accomplish. So to everyone who's listening, thank you for the opportunity to, you know, for me to share information. I hope you find it helpful and. Yeah, and just. Just keep doing what you're doing and keep sharing and keep. I feel so strongly that your heart's in the right place, man. So I see you and I appreciate you, and thanks for this opportunity.
Lou: Thanks, man. There is one more question, I guess, for also for people that want to maybe work with you, are there different levels of working with you? Because it sounds like, is it retainer based? Because then I'm messaging you when I need you. Is it one time and I get a certain messages. So is there different levels of working with you? Are you pretty streamlined in one offer.
Cory: For people, it's packages of legal documents or legal advising, but usually it's packages of legal documents, and that includes a period of unlimited edits, revision, support. So the whole idea is like, I get that you don't know what you're doing. Let me get you the customized documents. Let me show you how to use them. And then from that point, if you have a question, you reach out. We support you. But it's streamlining your services is also one of the easiest ways to work with as many people as possible. That's what we're about.
Lou: Awesome. So consciouscouncil, ca got the Canada.
Cory: Yeah, that's it. Corey at Consciouscouncil, CA on Instagram, scouse counsel and yeah. Come say hi.
Lou: Beautiful. Corey, thanks for taking the time. And to everyone listening, thank you. And we'll see you next time.