Creating Quality Meditations & Unique Courses w/ Ralf Eisend
In this episode, we hear from Ralf Eisend about how he paved his way in the meditation community through his adventures in the Alps and unique nature recordings. In this episode, we cover:
The importance of authenticity and passion in creation content
How Ralf made took his spiritual discovery's abroad and made them into courses
Repurposing other content
Advice on maximizing the money you can make on Insight Timer
Ralf's reason he started the Insight Timer Teachers community
Free vs. premium content
And more!
GIFT FOR YOU
If you’re a meditation teacher or coach who wants to create unique meditations people listen to over and over again, enroll in my free course Meditation Script Mastery
Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello friends. Welcome to another interview episode of the art and Business of Meditation podcast. We are going to be waxing poetic on so many things today. I can't wait. We have Ralph Eisen, who is an alpinist and nature enthusiast. He makes sound recordings in the most remote places that have a soothing effect on emotional well being. His insight timer courses are among the most popular for sleep stretch, stress reduction and meditative practice. Ralph, welcome to the show.
Ralf: Thank you very much for inviting me, Lou. I'm so happy to be here tonight.
Lou: Ralph, why I wanted to have you on is I've seen your work on Insight Timer for a few years. I actually have one sleep course on the app, and I actually remember taking your sleep course, taking a bunch of people's sleep courses at the time because sleep is kind of a new thing for me. I had struggled with insomnia and wanted to create a course on it, so it's not my niche. And so I was curious how other people were doing some of their sleep courses. And what I loved about you and your work in general is how much it resonates with bringing your unique experiences, your journey in a wider sense, and then kind of making an offering and making a gift to the world through meditation. And as people have heard me wax poetic on this podcast, a lot around meditation being a medium that we get to share our gifts in and bringing our art in that way. And so I want to just thank you for being an example of that, which is why I know that it's going to be fun to hear your wisdom on how you do it, because we all maybe do it a little differently.
Ralf: Thank you very much for listening, Lou. Thanks for those kind words, man.
Lou: Yeah, so I'd love to just hear you been on all of these adventures that have inspired what your learnings and what you're sharing. And when did that adventure seeking start? And maybe more. So when did the spiritual journey start? I don't know if we start out on our pilgrimage to India or if something in our life has to happen or maybe a challenge that kind of shifts things. So just be curious to hear a bit about if there was that for you and when did that, that spiritual journey start?
Ralf: Yeah, I can tell you that it wasn't a spiritual journey. I was called into my boss office at the very beginning of COVID At the very beginning. It had just started, but the shops were closed. I was working for a retail company and I lost my job at the age of 55,
Ralf: and there wasn't much, and there isn't much chance for anyone that age to be finding employment again. And so I think two things happens. Once I was suddenly left with a lot of time because I had a corporate career. I was director level reporting to the CEO, and from one moment to the next, I had a lot of time. And also I couldn't sleep anymore. I was really, I think I was stressed out when I was working, but then when I lost my job, I was freaking out and I couldn't sleep anymore. So what I did was what really helped me, and that's exactly what I did, is I went out hiking. I live close to the Alps. I live in Munich, Bavaria. It's like 1 hour train ride to the Alps. And I did epic long outdoor hikes, multi day hikes. I always had a sleeping bag. I always have sleeping bag with me, never attend. I always have a small recording device. And I started, I mean, I had nothing else to do. I started recording nature sounds during that time. There was no airplanes on the sky, no cars on the road, nobody could drive to work, nobody would. You weren't allowed to leave your hometown, actually, during the lockdown. So I was making nature sound recordings and was telling those stories and I just looked. One of the most listened to and most successful story I ever produced was the very first one that I published on Insight Timer, which is, oh, what is it called? It's called thunderstorm in the Alps. And it was on one of those hikes where I was hiking. Like, it was very long and tough. The balline Hohenweg, it is called in Austria, and it's a seven day hike, very challenging, around two and a half thousand meters, which I don't know how much that is in feet, but really high sort of, you're always in the snow and then you're going down and can sleep in those huts or what I did mostly because I also don't have any money. So I slept just outside in my sleeping bag, and on the last lap I got caught in the rain and then a thunderstorm rolled in and I found shelter in this little hut and they built these huts, these shelter huts, and there was even wood in there and I was safe. And that's sort of still the most. Yes. Listen to story. I think it's 50,000 downloads or listens. It has, so it's really, really, and it's still a nice story. And that's how, it's how, that's how I started doing this. And that's why you probably know from the Facebook group, the only thing I really care about is recording quality. And there's any tips I would give is, yeah, make it good quality.
Ralf: Get good microphones, like lure yourself. I can see you've got the Shure SM seven B in front of you. I use the same one. If anybody tells me, yeah, you got to invest that money, it doesn't matter because I come from a recording background. That's where my passion is and that's where I started. But I wouldn't have considered myself, at least at that time, being interested in meditation or anything. That's not how it started. It started for me to be making hikes in northern Africa, in the Atlas mountains, and then I went to the Himalayas and thats sort of when things started changing.
Lou: Oh my goodness. Theres so much to reflect on. And I want to start by saying that Im actually getting married this July in the italian Alps, the Dolomites. I have family in the Trentino region of Italy. And so hearing you kind of in that same area, I know I get a sense of like, what that landscape looks like. And so I have chills just thinking about you feeling this urge. And I think, let me just want to reflect back and make sure I'm following your story right. So you really don't, you have, it sounds like a background in getting outdoors or at least, you know, nature and hiking. I'm assuming that was a background while you were in corporate. You get, you get, lose your job and all of a sudden you have this time. And you also had a passion for recording. And I'd be curious if you were recording things before that and you bring your recording stuff out into nature. And I just want to confirm, it's not like you were saying, okay, I'm going to wait for a thunderstorm, I'm going to go to a hut, I'm going to record it, and then in a few years it'll have 50,000 plays. I'm assuming that that's not in your head at that time.
Ralf: Exactly. And honestly speaking, that's how I approached it. Yes. I'd started playing with, I'm not very good with my eyesight, actually. I'm colorblind and I'm the kind of person, I'm very, I don't know, I'm not very quiet down. I don't like to stand in front of even looking into the alps or into the epic mountains and I can say, oh, look at this, look at this. Like people are nodding their heads and saying, wow, look, and they can look. I don't, I'm not a visual person. I have difficulty grasping it with my eyes, it's overwhelming for me. So I'm not really enjoying the views. So to quiet myself down, I've learned to start to listen. So I was always sitting next to, to a little brook or a river. I was sitting down when it started raining. I also like to go out into the forest when it's windy to hear the rustling leaves. That's my thing. And I can close my eyes. And I had, and I guess if there was anything that guided me on my way forward was being out in nature, then people are saying, yeah, you know, you got to ground yourself, walk barefoot. And so I read about that. I'm still very skeptical about it. If somebody says, yeah, grounding and earthing is really helping you. Yeah, it's helping me, but I wouldn't say it's, I don't know. No, it's helping me. That's something that's exactly, you know what? That's exactly how things I would say started with me that I noticed. Yeah, there's concepts. People are talking about it, but I didn't really want to talk about it like that. Like, I don't want to convince people of the energy flows and I don't know, some people like to explain it very scientifically. But you don't really like me as a normal person. I don't really understand the science behind it. So you could tell me anything about what happens. But I notice being out in nature, I sometimes feel I have to hug a tree, I have to sit down in the grass, I have to take my shoes off. That's how I noticed that there is more beyond the corporate world.
Lou: And so your recording, let's just keep looking at this thunderstorm. Like, the way that you connect is through sound, which is so beautiful. Like, wow, what an awesome story to realize that you can be out in nature. And the immediate thing you think about when you're traveling nature is like, wow, how beauty it is. But this alternate perspective of actually how much audio auditory beauty there is too, that we don't normally think of when we think of beauty in that sense. And so. But you record this. Why? What was your intention with recording it just for yourself? Like, did you have any plans to share this or you just kind of just, hey, this feels like something to do.
Ralf: No, that's. I did it for myself. It's like my photo album. And I actually used it to go to sleep when I couldn't be outside. So then I was lying in my bed. Hey, this is really a good memory for me. So I would think, of course, I can think back of the story. So when I produce these stories, I will tell the story of where I have recorded it because the listener doesn't know I could use my memory. So that's how. And then I got. And I had. First I didn't even think of publishing this for people to sleep, really. I don't know. The feedback was really good. Very fast, very good feedback. And, yeah, and then I said, well, anyway, I think what happened was that as long as I was camping outside, of course you're damn tired. If you're hiking 12 hours, you're going to sleep. And if you can't sleep, it's only because it's super cold and you're really uncomfortable and you have a reason for not sleeping, but you definitely not having any negative thoughts except that you want to survive the night somehow in the wind and in the rain and everything. But when I was at home, I still wasn't able to sleep well and I was still really stressed out. So I said to my wife, look, I need to go for a long hike and I want to find out what other cultures have to offer because I went to a doctor here and he said, yeah, you're in a difficult situation, raif. Maybe you should take sleeping pills. I said, oh, that's what you're offering? I don't want to go down that route, man. I'm already unemployed. Now. You start asking me to take sleeping pills, that's not. So I said, look, wife, I'm going and flying to India. And she said, how are you going to fly? It's COVID. I said, I'm flying on a medical visa. So I got a medical visa, flew down there and made an epic hike from Sagar island near Calcutta, all the way up the Ganges river to the Himalayas and making sound recordings and telling the story. And what I was doing, I was sort of going from Saga island is a big place for Hindus to worship gods and who knows what. And so theres a lot of ashrams in that area. So I went from ashram to ashram, then to buddhist temples, and I wanted to find out why those people there seemed to be so relaxed. And I thought, let me ask them. So that was my plan. So I actually went there. I had nothing else to do. So I went there. Started in Saga island, talked to a yogi there, then took a boat up the holy river and then up the Ganges. And on each stop I would end up somewhere. I would usually go to ashrams to spend the night there. Or look for big monasteries where that had a guest house, started talking to monks, practitioners, gurus, everyone there that I met on the journey and made a course about it. So I was still in my element of doing my nature sounds. I was still hiking, but I had this mission because I had sensed, oh, there seems to be an interest in sleep and that's me, myself because.
Lou: I'm.
Ralf: Not a meditation master, I don't know much about it. So I wasn't teaching, I was just telling exactly what those people told me. And they came up with practices and came up with yoga, nidra, progressive muscle relaxation, I don't know, all kinds of really deeply rooted methods that are also part of what people would learn from in a sleep clinic. But that was sort of the indian point of view. And so that was my first course that I've produced, which is still also among the most played ones with I think 5000 students and a five star rating, I guess. Or is it down to 4.8 or what does it have?
Lou: Did it lose half a point? I really want to highlight something here in your story, Ralph, that I think is important and helpful for people listening and just as a reminder for myself and for everyone when we, and I think of even my own practices in my own early recordings of meditations. So you from your just own inspiration and curiosity and passion recorded this nature sound, from this purity, from this authenticity. And wildly enough, it's also your most popular track. And when I think of that, there's something in that in like actually the purity of the creation, the purity of it for then how it came to be. And we'll talk about exactly how you found insight timer in a second. But for those of you listening, a lot of people might know Sarah Blondin, right, Sarah Blondin is the most popular teacher on Insight Timer. And neither was Sara Blondin a meditation teacher or ever thinking, you know, and knowing her story from the beginning of insight Timer and, and her podcast, Live Awake, she was just recording these poems that she wrote for a Soundcloud for this kind of free offering and she ends up putting them on insight timer. They become this viral sensation and she has this life where she can just be in the woods and write and create and is huge, huge, huge on insight timer. But in the same ways, she wasn't creating this live Awake podcast because she was trying to get that. That's what I'm trying to sense is like that are often the purest of our creations kind of come from that sense. Not to say that we don't want to do things to get somewhere. But the fact that it seemed like to me, Ralph, what you're saying is that was fulfilling for itself, right? That doing that recording and kind of opening up this interest in your, in recording nature sounds and telling the story was, like, fulfilling for you in itself. And then it seemed to have this wider impact. And so I just want to encourage people to think about that in your own life of, like, doing these things that are inherently fulfilling. And often that is what's going to have the most impact.
Ralf: Yeah. And I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about manifesting your dream life, but then I think sometimes it's very easy.
Ralf: You are what you do. At one point, this is a side story, but at one point, I ended up on a mediterranean island called Malta. And
Ralf: actually for tax reasons, because things were going quite well for me then very soon. So I went to this tax haven in the Mediterranean Sea where I still have my company set up, but I still felt like, hey, what do I want to be? And at that time, I really wanted to be a meditation teacher. But that sort of some time later when I had made some discoveries and I said, how am I going to be like a meditation teacher? Well, it's very easy. You just teach. If you don't teach, you're not. So I sat down in a place, it'd been like two weeks. I made a Facebook post, an advertising, actually, and I said, there's a free meditation class every Wednesday, this in this place in the very open, in the middle of the city, actually. And a lot of people came. And that's how I started building up my being there. And the same with you are what you do. So it's really like, yeah, why don't you do it? Why don't you make that little step? Or why don't you if you want it to be? And so I really did what I wanted. And, yeah, it wasn't like, it's not as if my wife is super, was super happy about when I started traveling all the time and not making any money and didn't attempt to make any money. I said, well, I'm hiking. And then we all got a sort of strap our trousers a bit closer and we're going to become a bit thinner.
Ralf: I wanted, like, it doesn't look like I'm going to find someone to employ me at age 55 plus. So I said, and I'm not spending much money. I'm just there and spending. I'm sleeping outside mostly or in really cheap hotel rooms. And that's how I still do it. So I travel a lot after that. After, I think it really, for me, it took off with my next travel. I came back from the. Did this India course. And then I think I flew to Kathmandu and I made a huge discovery. And it was one of the first three, I would call it spiritual discoveries that I made, because I'm not big into meditation. I was not at that time, like, I was just a hiking guy. And then I came across. I don't know. I spent time at a monastery outside of Kathmandu when I was going hiking, and I came across this method where you're talking to your demons. I thought, are they shitting me, these people? What the fuck are they talking about, talking to your demons? And he was even feeding the demons with your own body fluid. So that was really weird. And I thought, wow. Well, at least it drew my attention. So I followed that and I tried because it was not available in english language. That was the problem. They're all speaking Nepalese. They're all speaking. A lot of tibetan monks in Nepal are actually Tibetans that have fled the country when the Chinese marched in. So then I found translators and people that could help me, and that was my first. I would call it spiritual discovery that I made. And it's this method, talking to your demons, where you can release your stress in, like, a swift strike. It's called the Kathmandu retreat. And the Kathmandu retreat, I think, is phenomenal. It really takes the weight off your shoulders when we talk about, like. I know the meditation teachers always like to talk about. Yeah. Turning negative into positive. Yeah. Yeah. It's always, like a easier said than done. The question is, how. How are you gonna do that? How are you turning negative into positive, man? And I can tell you, I. And I have that sort of. That's something that I said. Okay, well, I did it at my lowest point when I lost my job, I was able to make a turnaround. It didn't. I couldn't say that. Like, for me to say, oh, I'm a transformational teacher. I can tell you how I did it. Yeah. It was. For me, it was just going outside in nature, that was all. But then when I discovered this, opened up this method,
Ralf: it's called CZ. It's a cz practice, goes back 1000 years, back to a tibetan jogini. And that really opened my eyes because that was far beyond what I had experienced of having to. Sorry to say that, dear meditation teachers, having to sit down for 15 minutes or 30 minutes and being quiet, that wasn't my piece of cake, to be honest, at least at that point, not. And then I discovered this, and this really takes the weight off your shoulder. And that's sort of with this first discovery that I made, a spiritual discovery, something new opened up for me where I said, it's like it has awoken the Indiana Jones in me to make those discoveries and to go deeper, not just deeper into the mountains, but also deeper into this mythical world of Tibetan Buddhism.
Lou: We have a similar journey, not in the travels, but in the. If you want to do something, be it or maybe the other way around. If you want to be something, do it. And similar to you. I actually just started teaching meditation by starting a meetup group and having people come every week. And so I love hearing the similarities in that and your discovery journey and literally just going on it, taking it in, learning it for yourself, and then, okay, how do I share it with others? And there's so many things that I do in that same way. And so how or when did insight timer come across?
Ralf: At the very beginning, my podcast that I have, the Sleeping Buddha podcast, actually, I had it in English and German and the German, and I stopped now just concentrating on english language, but the podcast was in German, and it reached very fast, a lot of popularity and was among the most played podcasts in the mindfulness area in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. And I think insight timer came up to me and said, hey, don't you have a few german tracks for us?
Lou: Got it.
Ralf: It was sort of in the mindfulness top ten in Germany. So I started in German and then later also translated into English.
Lou: Got it. And so did you have a course at that point that you can upload, or was that something that they asked for? Because I know at the time you can't upload.
Ralf: I used exactly the episodes that I had on my podcast.
Lou: Yeah. And saw that starting to get traction. And then imagine, like, oh, there's something. There's something here that I can keep giving some energy to. Yeah, yeah. So you record your first course, you start getting it out there. I think maybe I'd love to just talk to you about. Record the first course you record. Kathmandu course. I'd love to talk to you about courses and your process for creating courses. Now, I just want to make a public service announcement to anyone listening that you don't have to travel to faraway lands to make a meditation course that you can. You could kind of take your own experiences and do them. But I love how you've done that and made that your thing. And so, yeah, yeah, I'm curious, what is your process? How do you come up? Let's start with this general question. How do you think about creating courses in general? And then we can kind of pull the thread from there.
Ralf: My approach is a bit funny because it hasn't really changed. Like, most of the courses are actually hikes that I do. So from the Kathmandu retreat where I was mostly in one monastery, then I did sort of round, round trips, like 20 days around Mount Manaslu in Nepal, which is pretty challenging. And I combined that with that story with my, well, with tibetan teachings, in that case. Like, for instance, also a very popular course is the warriors path, which is about resilience. So for me, that's why I'm not really the sort of the calm guy who likes to sit down. I'm more the toughen up guy and get some resilience. Go outside there. To go outside. And I like to teach by example. So my courses are always a journey around some sacred mountain with a story, how to toughen up and teachings that I find or that I come across during my travels, like the warriors path to resistance,
Ralf: which is a cause that goes into. The Tibetans have four, what they call different dignities for mystical animals like the snow lion, the tiger, the Garuda and the dragon. And these animals have, they live in the mountains. So to give a, let me put it like this, to make a cause about this on a theoretical level, number one, it's not possible because the information isn't publicly available. Secondly is that you don't have the cultural and the geographical context. You have to experience the yaks, the food, the wind, the cold, the mountains, to know how they come up with these mystical figures. But these are like archetypal ideas. They stand like, the dragon stands for creativity. It stands for, like, dancing across the sky. And that's sort of something that how to let go or to achieve goals is by sometimes just being playful. It's the playful dragon or the proud. It speaks for itself. I don't even want to speak about the lion. Everybody knows if you're saying a snow lion, that's obviously a feeling that you can incorporate. And that sort of these, these teachings are teachings that I discovered during my hikes, experience during my hikes. And I take the listeners on, on these spiritual journeys. They are really spiritual journeys. That's how my courses are.
Lou: So you go out and it could be, I'm imagining also doesn't have to be super far, but it's like, that sounds like it. It creates your process that is 100% so unique to go and live that thing. Now, are you, as you come up with your days, like, maybe more on a practical level, like, okay, let you show up to Katmandu on this hike. Like, when do you start understanding what the outline looks like or what the whole course looks like? Does that happen after? Does that happen during it? And are you scripting your days or are you just getting on the mic, doing recording of sounds, telling a story? Like, maybe more nuance into your actual, like, the practical process of. Have an idea. I'm on this hike to. I am writing it, or I'm outlining it to. I'm recording it. I just find it inspiring and helpful to hear other people's, like, creative process.
Ralf: But besides, there's only. There's two things that I do on the hikes. One is I'm out there to enjoy myself.
Lou: Enjoyment. Okay, good.
Ralf: Yeah.
Lou: Enjoy. That's.
Ralf: That's what I'm out there for.
Lou: Yeah.
Ralf: Otherwise it didn't make. Doesn't make any sense that I wouldn't have to. I don't go out there to work, so I'm out there to have fun, to experience new things. They're really challenging things that are. They are really challenging hikes that I'm doing there. They're sometimes very, very lonely, and so I go out there to experience them. The only thing that I do is still, I always have my recording device and I make sound recordings. And then, which is. I would call that. I go there with a theme in mind where maybe during the Kathmandu retreat, I heard about this method, like the spiritual warrior, and I'm thinking, spiritual warrior, warriors path.
Lou: Okay.
Ralf: I've been hearing this. I don't know why it keeps coming up. And so these things keep coming up in conversations. And first, because if you're focusing on one thing, especially in Buddhism, it's got such a wide field. So you're saying to say, hey, can we please. You're talking to those monks. You say, please, can we just keep to the topic of just about this? Demons practice don't come up with now new things like the warriors path or spiritual warrior whatever. Please, can we just cut that out? Because I need to focus on that. Let's talk about that. But then you can't at one point, and you can't ignore it. So I say, they keep saying something about this, and then I say, okay, let me research this topic now. And that's sort of how I do it. Then I research a topic. I go there. I will say, and this is also, like my mission. So I say, okay, I'm going on an epic hike, but I'm visiting. I'm not. I'm going to visit every, like, monastery that I come past. I will try to find someone who speak English, or I will take an interpreter with me. Sometimes a portal that will help me translate. Sometimes I have friends there that will help me translate. They translate and I find out if they'd heard anything about this. So I try to get firsthand experience and note that down maximum more digesting it, and then I come home. So that's my design research that I do. I come home and I write the course and, um, recorded and use the nature sounds that I recorded.
Lou: Got it. So it's the whole creative front. You're kind of doing the research in a way. You're researching why is you're going out there just in your own journey, and then you're also recording the nature sounds from that land, and then you come home, put it into practice. Now, are you like, even more process like, are you scripting? Which I do. I script all of my meditation courses because I'm trying to condense the information and the something, what I'm trying to share in as little as possible. So are you scripting it or are you saying, okay, I know what I'm doing today. I'm going to get on and tell the story and share the insight or the lesson more flow, because I know people that do things both ways different.
Ralf: Yeah, no, I script, so I must say so besides, so one thing is me going out and exploring. There is definitely a side of me that is about productivity. I produce a lot, and I produce a lot by scripting, by reusing elements, by reusing sounds, reusing parts of stories,
Ralf: publishing parts of courses as separate tracks. Because reusing sounds I've created my own.
Ralf: People know if you listen to my tracks, it always sounds the same. You could say, at least in the last couple of years, I've got my own sound design and I've got my own music. It's very emotional. So, but I'm very structured. So everything is very, very structured. And that's how I'm able to produce a lot of content.
Lou: Another highlight here for you and what I want people to really take in is this idea of reusing content, right? To have things that you have in your course or, you know, to give a snippet, maybe in a free track or a premium track, if you're talking inside timer, or to use it in other places as well, that we have to. There's two reasons that I think that's important one. Um, not everyone's going to take that. They're going to hear that piece. Maybe somewhere else. It might be an older track. I think we, we think that we need to only do things once and then, and then that's it. And we can't repeat things. But especially if it's like a, a really powerful practice or lesson that often, even if they are people that have heard that over and over again, repetition is how we learn. Right. And so there's also the fact of, like, don't be afraid to reuse content, repackage content, say the same things. I think that's just, I want to highlight that because I know people can be like, oh, I shouldn't, because I have this here, like, no, no repetition. If it's the same person listening to it, we're going to even learn more with the, with repetition. Um, you know, how do you. Or there's. I see courses like, uh, like a singer sees albums and I might really enjoy one course and I'm going to think like, this course is going to do so well. I know it's going to do well. And, um, you know, I have one of my favorite courses on insight timer that I've created is probably my least played. And it's like, well, whatever. You could just like an album, like, you don't really know often what's going to do well until you get something out there. And so I'd be curious in the courses that you have done that have done well versus ones that maybe don't get as much traction if you can, you might not even notice anything. Do you know, like, does it feel like there's a difference in the ones that are doing the best versus the ones that maybe don't have as much traction. Do you sense, like any pattern there for yourself?
Ralf: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can definitely say that I have a core of courses that are all my hiking courses. And then I did a couple of courses of things that I had learned but put together later without sort of this story taking people on a journey. So all the ones where I'm true to my, to my core, they always perform well.
Lou: That's a great, a great lesson right there. So where should someone I know and we share, I think you're doing this too. I saw you do run a live on this and we share this passion for also helping people create courses. And I'm a big on, we're collaborating, not competing in so much of this work. And so maybe there's a future for us to talk about there, but I'd be curious your thoughts of where, let's say someone's listening to this and I don't have a course. Where should they begin in starting their first course?
Ralf: I think you have to. You have to. Is there a story you want to get off your chest? I can't really, like, I'm not, um, I wouldn't, I'm not someone to encourage content production for the sake of content production either. It has a value. Like your show has a value, man. People love to listen to your show because it's got a value for them. Not because you want to create content. No, because it's got a value. And you're interested in learning from all those awesome people that you're interviewing. I know you're a showman and you can learn so much from it that obviously, and the same is with, if you, if you haven't got anything to say, don't say it. So, I know I don't have a, I have a, I only have an opinion on, on quality produce. Quality don't go cheap on, on microphones, don't go cheap on software. It makes me cry to listen. Even Sara Bjendin, I listened to her stuff. I actually analyzed her, her sound quality, and it's really bad. She does it in her, in her living room. I can hear it. Yeah, she's using a good mic, but she doesn't know. Like, she doesn't even, she doesn't master them or she doesn't do anything with it. They're far too quiet. If you turn them up, you can hear the background noises. It's really bad quality. And that's something that, where you, you cannot be successful with bad quality. Very simple. That if you're delivering your message with, through sound, it has to be crystal clear. And that, that's all I can speak of. I don't want to encourage anyone to.
Lou: Yeah, I think there's an argument to be made that Sarah Blondin has become successful with maybe without the greatest quality, but I love what you're saying with having the quality content. I think it's like, that's. Yes. End there.
Ralf: Yeah, it's a good, either you have a good story to tell or you don't. And I don't think you can make money by breathe in, breathe out. Breathe in, breathe out. I even in my, I make sure that I never use those words because, yeah, if you don't have anything to tell you, we tell people to breathe in and breathe out. They can do it even without thinking. So that's not a story.
Lou: And so this is what, you know, as an old head on insight timer, this is where I felt a lot of resistance and like a. Oh, dang. When I saw them switch to self upload courses rather than going through the team and going through the process. And there's a. There's a few reasons that, um. Some more selfish, some more broad, right. As someone who had many courses on the app already, I knew that that was going to flood the. The. The course with the app with courses. And when more things happen, that's how it was with everything, right? There's a dilution of those play counts. So I knew that that was going to happen. That's. That's okay. That's my selfish reasons, and that's fine. But what I am maybe sensing, and maybe I'm just. This is my own shadow that I'm working with, even though I don't produce a ton of courses, but, you know, courses in some ways are the way to get new exposure on the app. And so there's an idea. I don't know if this. I can't validate this, but, Ralph, maybe you have a sense, if you're seeing this, where people just creating a lot of content, making them into two or three day courses, because that's going to get promoted and trying, because that's the way to make money, right on the app, is through courses and premium content. And so that's, you know, what. What I'm. What I'm sensing in you is, like, to not do that, right? To make sure you're not doing that and to focus on creating really great stuff from your heart and inspiration. But that's like, there's this fear in me or this resistance in me that. That it's going to be used to just create whatever. Because if I can just make a ton of. Like, if I could just make more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more. I'm going to maybe get, you know, some plays and I'm going to make money. So, curious if you have any thoughts on. On that?
Ralf: Yeah, it's. I think. No, I don't really have any thoughts. I don't have it. No. Yeah, I can see that people that these. They've introduced these two day courses now. Yes, I. I think what you can do. I tried it, actually.
Ralf: Like, I called it micromastery. So I mark them as micro mastery. So, good. If I want to get something of my chest or I want someone to get the message. And this person, like, time is valuable, and acknowledging that time is valuable, you could say, look, I have an important story to tell, and. But I want to. But I'm mindful of your time. So what I will do is I will create a short course. This could lead to a longer course, you could say, if you want to know more about it, but I'm giving you a condensed version, which is not a bad idea. But you're right. I think there is that you can get some exposure now with the short courses, and instead of producing premium tracks, you produce these short courses. I think nobody will doubt that. The whole algorithm thing at inside timer is really painful for. For all of us. So they shouldn't be surprised that the system is sort of misused. It's inside timers.
Lou: It's not wrong, and it's not right. So, like, I don't want to pretend like I'm saying this, like. Like, oh, I'm the right one. I think I just have to be honest of, like, what happens when you've been on something for. When I've seen everything happen and when I see things that I know, again, selfishly are negatively impacting me. And I don't think it's. There's anything wrong to create a great two day course and to make it, like, you know, be a snippet of something greater. I think it's just I sometimes. I think I always looked at courses like books, and because I put so much heart and energy into them, like, I would write a book that there's, like, again, this old head mentality of, like, people aren't looking at it and this gravitas that it is. Like, they're just, like, looking at it to just get more content out there, and that's okay. Like, they're not. They weren't on the app in 2016. They didn't have the wave that I had, and at this point, I would be doing the same thing. So I I think the thread I want to come back to is not. Not that it's wrong to do those short courses, but coming back to the, you know, just making them good, right? Making them, like, your authentic expression. Doing it for the sake, because there's something that you want to share. Like, hey, I want to give people a little micro mastery of this thing. And that feels like what's wanting to come out of me versus how do I hit my revenue goal for inside timer this month, right? Doing it not out of the. Not that trying to, like, make something happen in that way. Oh, I need to create four more courses and. Okay, well, I don't really think I feel like creating courses. What could I do? Oh, uh, and. And so, I don't know. I don't. That might be your process. And so I. Again, I can wax. I'm saying wax poetic a lot in this podcast. I don't know why, because I feel like I can be romantic. I could be like an old head romantic, almost like a grandpa. Like, in my day, you know, you had to do it this way, and now kids are doing it that way. And, yeah, there's, like, that energy to it. So I'm conscious and self aware of my own blind spots around it. And for whatever it's worth, I still just want to encourage people that this is a platform where we get to, you know, share our gifts and let the energy of spirit or source or whatever you believe in move through and doing it from that intention, rather than how do I get, uh, ten k followers in the next six months? Oh, I need to create money courses. Right. Doing it just from that alternate space. So, Ralph, I know we're kind of at time. Do you have a little bit extra time, or do you have to jump off to something? Okay.
Ralf: Yes.
Lou: No, I'd love to talk to you more about some things. So, um, how. Well, let's. Let's. Let's meet a flip on that. Exactly what I just said. How for someone on the app, would you recommend them growing their enrollment or income if, if and how to do about that? Or maybe how you've seen yourself do that. If there's anything besides the insight timer marketing, like inset timer does a lot of the marketing for us. But I guess, in your experience, do you have any wisdom for people who want to grow their enrollment in courses or their followers or their income? Let's use insight timer as the example.
Ralf: Yeah, definitely. I know there's also discussions in the Facebook group about it. The questions, what should I produce? And it's very, very simple. Produce premium content and courses. I've only produced, like, premium content I have before. Like, quite a lot of the tracks that I had, as normal tracks were put into the premium from inside timer when they started it. So the only tracks that are normal tracks that I have are from before they introduced this. 75% of the revenue. The split 50 50, they take half and give half to the teachers. 75 goes to premium content and
Ralf: courses. Both is premium content. Yeah, two courses. And the premium tracks within that 70. Within that 75%, there is also quite a large chunk that goes to replying to comments in courses. So that also makes quite a difference how many comments you get. So I would encourage you to ask people proactively for, like, leaving a message so you can reply back. That definitely makes for me now what has happened. I don't want to, like, I I don't want to build an audience that listens to my stuff for free because they cannot listen to my courses. And I love my courses. I live for my courses. This is like the books that I produce. This is what I want to be known for. So I don't care about the free listeners. I don't have a message for them. I produce some sleep episodes sometimes when I don't like it. When I personally don't like, I'm not 100% sure of if that is a really nice story, then I would drop it as a normal episode. Besides that, I create really top quality stories. I release them as premium. And now my premium tracks get more listens than my if I release a normal track. Because for the listener. Also, don't forget that for the listeners, it is much more pleasant to listen to well made tracks like the premium tracks. And that insight timer is going that direction. They are correct, because they're dealing with 18,000 teachers that all are not recording in studios or most are not recording in studios. So they need to bring their quality up. And the way they did this was good. And it's a huge chance just to build out your audience that are also listening to your courses, which pays a lot more.
Lou: So I have something I wish inside timer did, and I think they piloted it. I wasn't one of the people they piloted it with, but I think I know some people that they piloted it with. And this might, if they did do this, I would say it might offer another perspective on not doing free content anymore. But what I will say for a while, this was years ago, I would have people comment they would take, my most popular course is a course called learn to stop caring what others think. And there is many times where people would take. Would jump into that course and say, hey, Louis, you know, I I signed up for insight timer premium for this course based. I listened to some of your free content. I saw you had this course, and, and this is the reason I signed up for insight timer premium was specifically to take this course. Um, and then obviously, you get all access to all the other courses. I wish insight timer had some model to reward that, to give you some kind of percentage on. And you're shaking your head, so maybe you don't agree.
Ralf: I think totally do you do agree? Totally right?
Lou: Yes. Yes. Okay. I was reading it wrong, but that, yeah. And so with that, I would say that if that was the case or not, but sometimes you can be the converter for having a really quality free track. Say, at the end of the free track, hey, I have a course that goes into this. Someone takes that free track and goes, hmm. And I really would like to do a little bit more on it and potentially then pays for the service because of your free track. And so maybe that will happen at some day soon. That would be so incredible. But it's not yet. And there's still a case that people, if you are creating free tracks, people might find you and then want to pay for the app and go on your services. So I just wanted to say that I hope they do that at some point. I'm hoping to have some insight timer team on this podcast at some point soon, so maybe I can talk to them specifically.
Ralf: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think that's what you're saying is looking back, it's really disastrous, to be honest. They're really clumsy. They're clumsy with their software development. They're clumsy with their product management. They're clumsy with how they treat the teachers. They're clumsy with their policing and spying out teachers and spying into life, spying into content. They're clumsy with their online marketing. I don't know why it's the only company that doesn't market their actual content instead of them. They go in and it's really everything is clumsy. And that's, I think at the same time the good news, they've got this new Cs, Melissa, she and that's, I think talking about now why I am also like to work with inside hire. It does give hope that they put someone in there now in charge who has built big companies because even the way how clumsy and badly they treat the teachers like, the communication with the teachers is like disastrous from my perspective, not to utilize this awesome group of people to have calls, to have groups, to have chats, to have whatever they're trying to isolate the teachers. It seems not to collaborate in any ways. And however we feel about whatever is happening inside, if we're looking at making money with it, I'm happy they start from the marketing because that is just as clumsy the way they communicate with their customers on social media, on all channels. It's so clumsy. I'm happy that they decided to look for a marketing person to drive it. Because if, if insight timer teacher, if insight timer now grows ten or hundred times we're growing with that. Yes. And I can take a lot of pain from them as long as they grow.
Lou: Yeah. So I hear you on a lot of that. And I agree with the marketing aspect of, like, they don't. They haven't really marketed a lot. And, you know, that's, you know, Christopher has had a strong, really pure, authentic vision from the beginning. You know, I. There's. There's things in your share that I think as someone who I can never get under over the amount of gratitude that I have for insight timer and what it's, like, brought into my life. And I don't know if you were around in, you found it maybe later into 2020, but were you around when the mentors, long story short, basically, they were doing a lot of the things that you're sharing. I think they had more calls with teachers, they had more opportunities and collaborations, and I think they just got burned by that initiative at that one point. This is me just speculate, speculating that they got burned by how much resources they put into teachers and into the mentors and that whole program and the workshops that were happening that I feel like they took a big step back. And so, um, I just. Yeah, just. There's. There's an endless amount of gratitude that I have for, for insight timer, and they're definitely not perfect by Eddie beads. They definitely can, you know, like all of us. Right. But I think the. The purity of which it's created, I think, is why people like me and you and so many other people are finding audiences in ways that we wouldn't have ever found it in the past. And we're making substantial income. Right. If you can start to figure that out, making a couple thousand dollars a month is not any. It's a dream. It's a dream for many to have that kind of passive revenue. And hopefully, if you dial it up, that could continue to grow as insight timer grows. And so, Ralph, it seems like you saw something that you wish there was. Like you saw, I wish there was teachers support somewhere, and it's. And you tell me if this is the wrong reason, but you kind of created that. Like, you created a Facebook group, a LinkedIn group, where you got in, where you're getting insight timer teachers together to support each other. And so correct me if I'm wrong, that that's the reason, but it sounds like this inspired this other offering that you have.
Ralf: Absolutely. I felt so isolated from creating the content and getting user feedback, but not being able to communicate to other teachers, not to share any knowledge and I actually reached out to them about it, but I got sort of their lovely, one of their lovely template answers back that I should shut up and. Or they didn't. Then they said, please, did you read this? And then I'm getting the. Are you satisfied with that answer? No, I'm not satisfied, but will still not listen to you. I said, okay. Then I started myself, if you don't want to talk to me or to others or bring us together, it's not that difficult. So that's what I did. And I also invited them to the groups. They don't respond, so they don't want to, like, join in. I don't know why. I'm always a bit surprised about it, to be honest, but that's how they are. Well, they're not bigger than a grocery store. You must know. I mean, they're making 40 million worldwide turnover. 40 million. That's like less than one Walmart is making less than one Tesco store per year. It's a really, really small company. And that's still. Let me tell you, that's the good news about it. The good news is this has a lot more potential if you're running it a little bit smart. So I'm really happy about Melissa joining the team and hopefully growing it.
Lou: So what's been surprising for you about the community so far? Maybe just in starting it and seeing people connect, what has been surprising or what has been nourishing or. Yeah. How has that experience been for you that you've seen?
Ralf: Oh, it's been so good. I mean, you've seen it yourself. This has been total game changer in my life. I learned so much from others. I'm also being able to teach others. I always think, you know, the better we get if you open a restaurant, if you open a restaurant in an area that. Where there's only one restaurant, where you're the only restaurant, you think, oh, I'm going to make money because it's the only restaurant. Well, man, you're wrong. And if you're opening a restaurant among other shitty restaurants, you're not going to shine in there because people are going to assume it's a shitty restaurant. So me having my content up on a platform, I want others to be good as well. The only way that platform is going to grow is not from my content, but from everybody is really good content. So that's why I said, well, if there's anything I can help with is with what's got to do with my passion. It's about, yeah, producing good content. I listen. I like to listen. That's why I like to sit alone in the forest and listen to the rustling leaves. And if I sit down and listen to a podcast or an inspiring story, it has to be good sound quality. And that's where I found, oh, I can help people there. I can also help them become faster in their production process. So I'm happy to help there because I know in the long term, I'm not helping others. And it's not like I'm feeding my enemies or my competition, making my competition stronger. Yeah. The more good competition there is, the better the platform gets, and the more I will benefit from it. I want to be a restaurant in sort of the best restaurant street of town, and that's what I want insight timer to be. And I do my part to make it better and to help make it good and help them as much as I can.
Lou: I love that analogy. That's so good. And it's not something I would have thought of off the bat. I'm like, oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. If actually, if everyone gets better, we all win. It's something I do believe in that know when you win, I win in this collaborative energy. And I've done so much personal work around competition and jealousy with, even with dear friends that I'm now with that are also on the app. So go check out if you are a meditation teacher or anyone on. And there's so many things you can share on Insight timer. So if you're on insight timer, yeah, definitely go check out on Facebook Insight timer teachers, and then I think you also have one on LinkedIn, which I'm not as clued in with, but it's, I think, a similar insight timer teachers to check in on. And I actually asked the group just before this podcast episode about any questions that they had, uh, for you. And I. And I hope I asked that not because I wasn't prepared, but because I was, like, wanting to see if the group had something that I didn't have. And I loved a question Megan had. This is kind of going back to. And Megan is actually, I know, a listener of this podcast, so shout out to you, Megan. Thanks for. Thanks for the. For your question. But I think it's unique, and maybe something that someone might want to think about is she asked, how do you actually record the nature sounds like, is there anything that's different between, let's say, if I'm in a studio recording meditation to how do I go outside? What if I want to find the sounds of a bird you know, for me, it'd be the sound of a lawnmower. But maybe there's something that I can create with that. Like, is there? Yeah. I'd just be curious of, like, any. Any advice for recording outside in nature? Like, what should. What should someone know?
Ralf: Yeah. So I think the most important thing is you can't record in any area when there's an airport around, like in normal, like now, actually, in the Bavarian Alps, I cannot record anymore. You can only record loud noises that people don't really like. Like, one of the noises that you can record is rivers, but people don't respond well to that. It's not a nice sound. Rain is already challenging. Through rain, you can still hear if there's a plane going along the sky. Those microphones, like, all of them, we know how difficult it is with background noise, and it's easier to remove background noise on a spoken word than on a nature sound. Also very difficult. Rustling leaves or a bit more subtle sounds. They are very difficult to record, and you need it very quiet. And that's how also I ended up in more and more remote areas and hiking in places that are far away so that I can get in that the most. You don't really need a lot of equipment, like, from a microphone perspective, it's easy to Google, but you don't have to invest that much. Maybe €200 for a recording device, but you have to be very remote.
Lou: So answer to your question, Megan, is get out. Go deep. Go deep into the wilderness. Maybe not the most satisfying answer, but the truth. And also why I think your courses are and your work is resonating with people, because you have gone on that adventure to find those sounds. So, Ralph, great work for all the different work that you're doing. Thanks for taking the time on the show. Is there anywhere you want to send people to to find out what you're doing or creating?
Ralf: Yeah, well, anybody who has
Ralf: a plus account. I would definitely one of the courses that I personally like most, and I like it also from the sound quality. And it's something where you can see how to work with music, not just hiding the background noises is definitely the warrior's path to resilience. Go visit that. But any other track as well, I think just listen and get how I use music to create positive feelings.
Lou: Go up your recording game and check that out. I think I will be as someone who's 90% of my. 98% of my content doesn't have music. It's something I've been thinking about more of actually bringing in more feel to that, like a journey. And so, yes, I'll be checking that out, too. Ralph, thanks. Thanks so much. And thanks for spending your time. This has been super fun, and maybe we'll do a round two at some point.
Ralf: Thank you very much, Lou. And it's such a great podcast you have there. And looking forward to who is coming next on your show.
Lou: Yay. Thanks, Ralph. All right, take care, friends.
Ralf: Thank you.