Ayahuasca, Human Design, & Gene Keys w/ Michael Peterson
In this episode, I'm joined by Michael Peterson to discuss his healing journey with plant medicines, and his indepth knowledge of Human Design and Gene Keys. In this episode you will learn:
How one becomes an Ayahusca Shaman by age 33
How someone can know they are ready for plant medicines
Overview of Human Design types
How to use your deisgn in your life and business
Introduction to Gene Keys in understanding emotional responses
GIFT FOR YOU
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Music Credit: Nova by River Roots - https://www.youtube.com/riverroots
Podcast Transcript
Lou: Hello there, friends. Welcome to another episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. I am your host, Lou Redmond. And today we have a very special guest, my friend Michael Peterson. Michael is founder of Alchemy Shift, which is, he has that domain, which is an amazing domain to have, Lil, just say that off the bat. He's a founder of Alchemy Shift where he offers transformational coaching retreats and supports plant medicine integration. He's a certified master practitioner of shamanic energy medicine, a gene keys guide, and is also an ayahuasca and mesa holder in the mestizo lineage of amazonian shamanism. So, Michael, or as we sometimes like to say, miguel, welcome to the show.
Michael: Hey, Lou, thanks for having me on. Happy to be here.
Lou: Michael, I think the most, one of the most, there's many, many fascinating things about you, but what is fascinating to me is how someone becomes a shaman by age, I think 33. You are.
Michael: I am 33 and I don't know if that's late, early or right on time. So.
Lou: Yeah, that might be. It might be. To me, it's like you think of like a shaman and you imagine, I don't know, maybe the first thing that comes to mind is like some, some elder, some elder person. And here's you. And I know a bit about your background, but I think it would with color and make, it makes a lot of sense in knowing a little bit about your background, your story and your journey. So I'd love for you to just, yeah. Share how that comes to be for you a little bit.
Michael: Sure. So I took a very traditional path for the first seven, eight of my life. It was grow up, go to school, go to college, go to grad school. And throughout that time, when I was 14, my dad passed away. He committed suicide. And it put me on this really interesting quest from the age of 14 on to figure out what is the purpose of all of this, and more importantly, what is my purpose, what is my role? How do I want to engage with life? So coming out of graduate school where I got my MBA and a master of science in public policy, and I was looking at how to do social impact consulting and how to create business for good, I was looking around and everybody, myself included, had great job offers. People had jobs that would make them money and status and all these things. But I was burnt out and I was looking around and I was also seeing this isn't going to make me happy. So I had a kind of background plan in place, but I really spent the first part of that plan taking care of myself studying yoga, working with the earth, doing natural building and permaculture. And then I also started working with plant medicine, and that was a game changer and so forth. Really, the next five years, from 2018, late 2018 till now, I did nothing else except for study plant medicine, study how to integrate it, work on coaching, and really try to become a skilled practitioner of what I wanted to put out into the world. But it was really still based in this how do I want to heal myself? And then that transformed into how do I want to be of service to others.
Lou: So I can imagine having such a traumatic event at such a young age could send you in so many potentially different ways and how you engage with that. And so I think I read on something that you shared around having a meaninglessness or experiencing a meaninglessness early on, and I was assuming, was it that time? And I guess I'm just curious, like, do you know that you want to work on yourself, like, from that experience of your dad dying right away, or did that come through later on in college where you were like, I need to do some work on this?
Michael: That's a really good question. I don't know if I would have framed it as working on myself at that early stage. I was going through confirmation at the presbyterian church when my dad committed suicide. And I was going to a private school that had a lot of hierarchy and status dynamics going on. And that traumatic event just made me pause. And so I put everything down and I said, what is going on here? And it was more of an exploration of trying to make sense of the world after all the structures that I had in place went away. And keep in mind, I was 14. And in terms of a masculine initiatory culture, there goes my guide right out the window. And so I had this question of, what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be somebody who can live happily? Because my dad had a good job, my dad had status. He still decided to kill himself. And so theres not 100% correlation between job status, success and happiness, fulfillment and purpose from that early on stage. But it was more about studying existentialism and trying to figure out what is the purpose of existence. And then later on, it became much more somatic, understanding myself within that framework and saying, oh, my body is tired. I'm carrying around weight. I'm trying to make myself happy while trying to make a ghost happy. And I can't do both of those things at the same time. Does that answer your question?
Lou: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, what I'm when I'm here. What's sticking out to when I hear and I think of myself at 14 or even 22 years old is something for you, made you start questioning. And I think that's the quest, literally the root word of question that it's like, wait a second, something's not making sense. And I think hearing you start to ask those questions to yourself at a younger age, the, what's the Tony robinism like? When we ask better questions, we get better answers or something like that. Or so often we're just drifting, most people, and I was not really asking any questions, just like, yeah, this is the thing you do. This is, you know, and so I think hearing those questions come up and seeing how that leads to kind of how your journey unfolds is really interesting.
Michael: Yeah, it was questions and experimentation, right? So I tried a nihilist route, which is just existentialism with a shitty answer. And then I played around and explored. And that to me was the biggest teacher was, I don't know the answers. And if I don't know the answers about myself, then how am I supposed to fit into this framework that's being given to me? And in terms of the conditioning that we all receive, you know, I'm. And we'll go into the human design aspect of this, but, like, I am very prone to being conditioned. And so I had to really start unraveling all of that conditioning and getting to this question of who am I and how do I want to go forwards in the world.
Lou: In what stage of your plant medicine study were you? Like, this is part of what I want to do. Like, I want to know this and actually like guide and lead ceremonies. And then we're talking more specifically ayahuasca. When we talk about plant medicine, I'm assuming, I know there's other ones that you've explored, too.
Michael: You know, it's still unfolding to be completely transparent on that. I would say early on, though, I had kind of an egotistical idea of, oh, man, I love doing this and I'm going to go study. And thank God I had that because it definitely propelled me on the track a little bit. And then a little bit later, after doing some more personal healing, the medicine came and told me very specifically, it is fine if you want to continue doing this work. However, if you keep doing this work, it's not going to be about you anymore. And that was a message that I took some time to sit with, but that also started transforming and shifting the path and became more about understanding how ceremonial structures work. How the medicine works, how to let the medicine work through me, which is different than how it might work through you or somebody else. So it was still a self exploration, but the focus of it became multifaceted and far more outward focused in terms of being of service to others.
Lou: At that point, this is something I have not shared publicly. This will be the first time people hear me talking about it that are outside of maybe some more closer circles that I sat for the first time in ayahuasca ceremony with Michael and his teacher Zachary not too long ago. And I had to resist every urge inside of me to not be the life coach who, like, talks about his first ayahuasca experience. It was painful to resist it. And thanks to conversations with Alistair and actually letting myself receive from Alistair, which can sometimes be really hard to receive, Alistair has been, I guess, on this podcast and a mutual friend of ours. But he. He. Yeah, I had to resist every urge to share that. So I'm sure at some point, when, as this continues to process, there's so much I haven't been sharing personally that I normally share with people. And so I just wanted to give that background because as someone who had a lot of resistance to plant medicine for a while, for, I think, fair reasons, I had an addiction background, and I became sober, and I just wanted to make sure that it was aligned and right. And it's, you know, in my very limited couple year experience with different sort of plant medicines, it's been such a huge, huge, helpful tool. And since our retreat in March, things for me have felt so much more open and in flow, and I'm just so grateful for it. And so, in your experience, Michael, how do you, for some people listening, a lot of people, this is to be a brand new area for them, potentially, even though they're in, you know, I think I don't want people to do it as, like, a spiritual belt thing, right? Like, okay, I'm just going down the spiritual, you know, gauntlet, not gauntlet, but let me just do all the things. And so how. How do you have a litmus test for people of how they can know if they're ready or if it calls to them, other than it's probably calling to them they know?
Michael: That's such a tricky question. Um, I'm going to take a different approach than I might usually take to answer it, which is, hey, if you want to win the spiritual Olympics, you're not going to win it without working with plant medicine. Uh, hey, if you are feeling called to get that notch on your bed, post or notch on the belt on your spiritual journey. And that's what's calling you to it. Okay. And you know why that's okay? Because sometimes we have to learn lessons the hard way and, and things transform over time. So look, if you're being called to work with the medicine because you just want some novel experience, right? You never know what a novel experience is going to unlock for you. And so, sure, knock on that door, but just don't think that you're going to get exactly what you asked for, because what you're asking for is something new. And if you want something new but to stay the exact same, it generally doesn't go very well. If you are feeling, on the other hand, that kind of nervous excitement around the idea of working with plant medicine and kind of scared, excited, Skyd is what my wife calls that term. If you're feeling skydid about it, that's a really healthy place to be. And if you are feeling so exhausted and so stuck with where you're at that you were just saying, I need something to break out of this pattern that I'm in. That's another great reason. And there are, I think it's Jack Warnfield who says there's as many different types of meditation as there are people on the planet. And I would put forth that there are as many different reasons to work with or not work with plant medicine as there are people on this planet. But as we are considering, how do I want to approach working with the medicine? Understand whether it is for personal use or if you're a therapist who wants to have the experience so you can be of greater support to others, you're still going to have to have your personal experience with it. There's no way, without fracturing your psyche, you can say, I'm going to go and sit with ayahuasca, but I'm going to reject everything that it shows me and just put it as something external. It just doesn't work. So if you're somebody who hears a call to adventure, im not going to tell you to say no. Im just going to say, hey, be prepared to go on an adventure. Pack your bags, take the time. But even when were called on these, I dont know why Im going back to kind of the warning that you gave of not wanting to notch in the belt, but I think about the Iliad and the Odyssey when Odysseus was going off to war to start and left Ithaca and goes to Troy. It was to fight and to claim glory and to do all of these things and then the lessons and the challenges all come on the return from that journey and its the return that transforms him as much as it is the battle and getting those accolades. So he wouldnt have left home without that call. But it ended up being a much different lesson than he expected or intended. And so as long as were willing to accept the unknown, totally, totally encourage people if it feels right to them to explore the idea of working with ayahuasca.
Lou: I love that answer. There's almost like a part that is like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually, that to have like the high I love. There's a quote by Father Thomas Keating, like the spiritual journey is one humiliation after the other. And to have this more maybe egoic, like, I can't wait to do this thing because this is going to be cool and this is going to, I'm going to transform, you know, whatever that energy might be. And to be like so humbled in that experience could be one of the, yeah, I can see how that could be exactly what that person would need. Right. If they're, if it has that energy going to it. And so when does working with human design and gene keys and just curious where which comes first for you and then we can kind of going go into more understanding about it.
Michael: Sure. Human design came in first as a concept, and that came in late 2018 as well. I wouldn't say that it stuck at that point in time. I had kind of an allergic reaction to it, if you will. And then Gene Keys came online 2019, 2020, but came in full force, and that was really useful. And then it started blending together with human design because they're interrelated systems. And so part of it was also I experimented with human design more, too, and got some good feedback points, although I can still sometimes like to argue with that system.
Lou: So I'd love to hear if you can give a good, high level frame of human design and then also your personal story of when you found your, like, how you've maybe worked with it or how, like, or maybe early on of like, wow, this is once I learned my human design, I stopped doing this and I started doing this, and it was like this immediate, like, yeah, there's something here. If that applies.
Michael: Sure. So human design is a system that combines the I ching, astrology, the chakra system, and components of the kabbalistic tree of life into one synthesized framework. And if you say, wow, that sounds really complex, it's because it is or it can be. The essence of it, though, is that it's a system that tries to say, hey, this is the type of energetic vehicle that you are driving, and I do mean vehicle. So, and here's how to undo the conditioning that you've received. So the way that I like to put this is the conditioning that we've received is, hey, everybody drives a Honda civic, and that's just not true. And if you drive a Lamborghini and I drive a really cool off road vehicle of some sort, you know, if you try to take your Lamborghini off roading, things are going to go poorly. And if I try to take my off roading vehicle onto a racetrack with you, you're going to blow me out of the water. And neither of us are driving a Honda Civic.
Lou: So great analogy.
Michael: What human design does at its core is it tells you, here's the type of vehicle that you're driving, and here's the basic strategy that you can work with, and here's how you can make decisions skillfully, and then you can get really complex with it. Gene keys is more. Here's the adventure that that vehicle can take you on and bring you through. In terms of how human design came in to my system, it came in through plant medicine work. My teachers asked me, hey, have you ever heard of human design? Do you know what your human design is? And I said, I have no idea what you're talking about. We looked it up, got my chart, and in terms of human design terms, I am a reflector, which is 1% of the population. I am the sparkly unicorn that they had always been looking for. And I said, I have no idea what being a reflector means. And I looked it up and it means that none of my energy centers are defined. We'll get into all the specifics, perhaps, but there was this line that said, as a reflector, you should not let anybody tell you who you are or try to put you in a box or define you. And that really resonated with me. And at the same time, im getting that from a system that is putting me in a box, defining me as a reflector and saying, heres how you operate. And I said, I like it, but I dont like it. And I just said, this is really complex, but I want to understand the basics. When were working in plant medicine space, the energetic realm is very apparent. And so you can really start to see how different people's energy works. And I was running this experiment of human design at the same time that I'm in that amplified plant medicine space. And I was able to really test theory. I was like, oh, here's that person is probably a manifesto or a generator or a projector.
Lou: I'll blow it away. You could see, you could feel this out, like in ceremony.
Michael: I think you can get a pretty good sense of it, and I think that continues to this day. And it's an experiment. So I'm not saying I'm right 100% of the time. I would say I'm probably more accurate than 50%. But there's also a way of how aware of themselves is somebody, because an aware manifestor is very different than an unaware manifestor in terms of how their energy is being portrayed or coming out into the world to be experienced. I'm going to encounter a lot more of the not self themes from them. And as a reflector, I'm just here to feel and amplify and reflect back. And so when I'm encountering somebody who's in their not self theme, it's pretty apparent, and it doesn't feel that great, and it kind of breaks my heart, or it makes me want to throw them off the side of a cliff and say, go fix yourself. That would be my unskillful part coming out. Right. So, yeah, there's definitely a way to feel into these energy types in the same way that I'm sure if you've had Alistair on, he can probably make decent guesses about somebody's typology and say, oh, yeah, they're like an INTP or an ENFJ or whatever. It's like you're probably a generator.
Lou: Yeah, yeah. There's so much that we could. Which direction we can go around. What thread of human design to take. You mentioned energy centers, you mentioned not self theme. I'm curious, for people here that are in this audience of wellness coaches or meditation teachers, and how would knowing their human design, and maybe you can even give examples of some of the design types, how could it help them? Obviously, personally, that's kind of more broad, but even in the work that they're doing, how is it a tool for that?
Michael: Sure. So the basic idea behind human design, it brings in astrology. So if you're already out of the woo woo coaching space, don't come into human design. There's going to be aspects of it that will challenge you. But essentially, when we are born, there's an imprint of time and space, like a photograph that is taken that is us at that moment. And 88 days before we were born was when the prefrontal cortex was being developed according to the human design system. And so it pulls in what the sky looked like then as well.
Michael: There's nine centers, just like there's seven chakras. This is the human design system says, well, we are actually moving past that into a nine centered being, depending on how many centers are defined based off of the astrological placements from when we are born, there's different ways that our systems operate. And so these are the major types or profiles. So you can have a reflector like myself, which has zero definition, and their chart, none of the centers are defined. You have rejecters who don't have a moat, an energy center that acts as a motor connected to their throat. You have manifesters who have a motor system that is connected to their throat, but it's not their sacral center. And then you have generators who have a defined sacral and have this energizer bunny kind of energy to just get stuff done. If they're listening to their responses as a coach or as a meditation guide or as a therapist, anybody who's working with other people. The reason that this is helpful is like any other sort of typology or personality tool. One, it says, not everybody is the same. Two, it says, hey, these are the general categories of people, and they are not intended to work in the same way energetically. So if I have a client who is a generator, who has a defined state rule, that is like having a battery that is fully charged, and they are consistently needing to burn that energy off, its like 70% of the population. And so thats great. And we can dig into the specifics of their chart to see how they might best use their energy. But if theyre, and I'm sorry for going too far into the weeds, for those of you who are like, this is a lot, but if you have defined sacral center, just, it's that gut feeling of like, yes or no, and it might not even be verbal. It might just be like a sound, like, uh uh, or mm hmm. And so when a sacral generator is making a decision, they really need to listen to their gut, and if they don't, they're going to spend their energy on the wrong things. For somebody like myself, who's a reflector, who does not have that definition, my strategy is to take a full lunar cycle to make really big decisions in my life. And so if somebody's telling me, just listen to your gut, act quickly, go fast, that might not be the right advice for me. And in fact, that could lead to things going really poorly in my life. Or if I'm talking to a manifester and manifesters in the most polite way. Really, really, really don't like being told what to do. And as coaches, I think we intend to never try to tell our clients what to do. But there is a ability to reflect back and show things to other people. And if that is breached in the wrong way with the manifestor, they're going to row their heels into the sand and they will go the other direction just to show you that they can. And so to consolidate what I'm saying, having a very simple and useful understanding of human design, if it's a tool that you want to work with, can help you figure out the best approach for you to take to your clients or with your clients based off of your own energy type. How to take the best approach to your work. If you don't have a defined energy center and a battery that is always going, maybe you're a projector. You need to learn how to work in sprints and to find the things that really, you know, resonate with you so that you're not burning out. And on the client side, it can also help you understand the client and come up with correct strategies or approaches for them. The most important thing, though, is to just understand our own type and make decisions using our authority and our strategy.
Lou: So I think tooth a couple things that all of what you shared was super supportive. And for me, when I learned about my type, which is a manifester, that's why Michael is using manifesto examples, when I learned about a type, specifically when you were talking about the inner authority and not having that sacral, like, I never was that gut type feeling people would talk about, like, it's like this gut feeling, I was like, I never really connected with that. I thought I did because that's what I think everyone would do. But when I learned that I was, um, what's the type where it's, like, more intuitive? What's like that? It's.
Michael: Are you splenic?
Lou: Splenic, that's it.
Michael: Yes, yes.
Lou: Splenic. Right. So, which is very, just very soft, jet, like, light, quick type of decisions. And I've always felt that. And so it gave me, I think, in a lot of these typings, they can make you realize, like, oh, that's me. Oh, yeah. They kind of reflect back some, some, some deeper truths, I guess. A big question that I have, because I'm. I kind of. So my manifesto, like, the strategies, like, is the strategy to initiate, is that the strategy?
Michael: Your strategy is to inform.
Lou: To inform. That's it. Okay, but, yeah, but I'm here.
Michael: Your authority is your spleen.
Lou: Got it.
Michael: So you are a splenic authority, which is that quiet, fast, like, hit of intuition, and then you're. That's how you make your decisions. And then when you're operating, your strategy is to inform about what you are doing.
Lou: Got it. And so I guess the question, you know, what's the. So initiating is what? Where's that for a manifesto?
Michael: I mean, this is the thing about this system is it is speaking to the energetic dynamics of your being. It's engineering versus decision making, which can be frustrating. So, because you have this defined throat that is connected to an energy center, um, it has a very specific message that it is pumping out there. And so, in terms of initiating, like, as soon as you get to that point of, oh, yeah, I'm going to do this, your energy is already putting it into motion and creating it. Yes. It's helpful to work with other people and other types. Right. Because you don't have that defined sacral center. It might be really helpful to have a generator who can do all of the things all day, and you just are focused on the creation standpoint. Does that answer your question?
Lou: Well, it does, but that's the question I have. I think the. It's almost like this feeling of, oh, I. Maybe this is. Every manifesto feels like they like being. Maybe I hope everyone feels like they like being their type, but, you know, I feel like, oh, I'm so happy I'm a manifester, right? Feels cool. There's, like, a coolness to it. I can bring new things into the world and say, you know, screw the rules, I'm just gonna do whatever I want to do, da da da da.
Michael: To a degree.
Lou: Yeah, of course. But when I think of. And I know, like, I know a generator who creates a lot and is, like, so creative and bringing things into the world. So I think that's the question is, like, sometimes I think manifesters are the one that bring new things into the world. And so when I work with projector generators and manifesting generators, actually, I know the least about, in some ways. What's that? If I'm on a projector listening to this, and I'm wanting to, like, I have an idea for something I want to create. Like, I think the common question is, like, do I need to wait? Like, do I. Do I not do this thing that feels like I want to do? Like, that's. I think that's where I get a little bit, like, where it feels limiting, like, for that person, right. Where they need to. I need to wait for someone to tell me, I can do this or invite me to do this, like, what's. How does someone, like a projector grapple with that?
Michael: Yeah. So a projector's strategy is to wait for the invitation, which is why I think you're bringing up the, like, struggle that can be there. Look, this system is not designed to limit you. First and foremost, it is designed as an experiment. And also, it's definitely not designed to say that only manifesters can be creative. We are all creative beings for projectors, you know, when it is something that applies to your own life, like, and isn't you telling other people what to do, you don't really have to wait for the invitation. And technically, you never have to wait for the invitation as a projector. Just see what happens when you wait for the invitation versus when you don't. How are you received? How does that play out? And one of the things that I've read recently that I really, really loved because I'm married to a projector, is the answer to that question of, I don't like waiting for the invitation. Right. Well, first of all, welcome to the club. Nobody likes following their strategy to begin with. I mean, we can fall in love with it, but we don't like it to begin with. Oh, I have to inform people about what I'm doing that feels like I'm asking for permission. Manifesters don't like that until they figure it out. I like to move quickly, so taking time to slow down and allow myself to feel throughout this entire process over the course of a lunar cycle, not always my favorite thing. Responding and listening to that gut, yes or no? From the generator side, it might be really cool, and they might want to say yes, but if their body says no, they have to trust that, well, the mind is telling you something's cool, but your body is saying no. That is a learned skill set for projectors. You're waiting for the invitation to share your genius with others. So the question is, what do you do in the meantime? You don't wait. You prepare. And as you prepare, you are going to be doing the things that you love, that you're skilled in. You're going to continue to cultivate and develop your own natural talents and follow your passions. You're going to create the things on your own end, and people will see that. They'll be motivated by it, and then they will invite you to share that wisdom.
Lou: Okay, I got it now.
Michael: So if you're just hanging out there, pissed off at the world, you know, as a projector living your not self deme of bitterness. And you're like, I'm so bitter that nobody's giving me the invitation that you're not preparing and showing those gifts because that's just who you are and how you want to be. That's really unfortunate for everybody, but it's going to be the most painful for yourself.
Lou: That's really helpful to not, it's not that you're preparing, that's spot on. So I think that can be really supportive for projectors and in some ways generators too, because they're waiting to respond, but they're also doing things in that way.
Michael: Yeah, I mean we can all prepare. Like following, following your design does not mean that you can't live your life in the meantime. You know when I'm making decisions over a 28 day period, I go back and forth, I talk about it, there's still energy moving its way through and at the end of 28 days it's not so much as I've made the decision as the decision is just very clear at that point.
Michael: But in the meantime it's not like I'm just like I have to make a decision in 28 days and I'm not going to think about it or engage with it until then or I need to respond to something. So im just going to not look around me and find something until theres something big enough that I cant respond to. Any system that doesnt call us more fully into life, that doesnt call us to engage with life is a very dangerous system in my view.
Michael: There is a trap in almost any system or any methodology, whether it's ayahuasca and saying oh I'm going to keep on going to ceremony over and over and over and over again so that I never actually have to integrate or look at these things or take that knowledge back and share it, that's a trap. Or whether it's human design or gene keys where we can get stuck at the mental level and say I like to understand all the details, but I never actually want to follow it or play with the experiment. You know, the entire idea is if we don't, in human design at least, is if we don't follow our strategy and our authority, we are going to end up living out our not self being. And that's neither good nor bad. You know the not self theme for a manifestor is anger. And so if I was a manifester and I never allowed myself to feel anger because that wouldn't be useful. And if I got angry at the fact that I was feeling angry also not that useful. But if I can recognize, oh, I'm feeling angry, that is a great indication that I'm not listening to my design or my structure in some way, shape or form, then I can take the corrective action and say, thank you, anger for showing me where I'm not listening to myself. Or thank you, bitterness. Thank you, disappointment. Thank you, fear. And so we can start navigating all aspects of ourself much more skillfully and bringing all of ourselves to the picture instead of just this, oh, I'm so nice and spiritual and holy and I'm a coach, or I'm a meditation facilitator and guide who doesn't have any human things going on. No, we do have human things going on, and if we can navigate that skillfully, then we can help our clients navigate that skillfully. And that requires patience, making mistakes, understanding the same things that we want, ideally to share self compassion, which is what we want to share with our clients and empower them to find for themselves.
Lou: It's fascinating to think about like ten or twelve years ago, angers. And that would be my non self theme, but I actually have a tough time with anger, really experiencing anger. But if I think back ten or twelve years ago, it wouldn't be this rage, it would never be rage. Like I was really angry, but I would have this low level anger that I couldn't really quite understand that would show up and I would typically just drink more and that would be like not the best thing to do with, with that. And. Yeah, so it's like understanding that and how knowing my, knowing what I do now, even before I knew human design of how much. Oh, like, yeah, that's, that makes a lot of sense why I was feeling like that anger was showing up. Who's his disappointment?
Michael: Reflectors.
Lou: Reflectors. Okay.
Michael: Yeah. So each type has a not self theme and a self theme. So for manifestors, it is anger and peace. For reflectors, it's disappointment and surprise, which is really great. My little trap that I make for myself is I'm just surprised at how disappointed I'm capable of feeling. And thats not a good place to be. Its like authentic surprise comes in when I actually stop holding on to things, when I can let go of that expectation, because disappointment only comes about through expectation. And so as an undefined nothing in my chart is defined. For example, if Im looking for there to be definition in my chart and expecting there to be consistency in how I approach things, I'm going to be disappointed because it's just not there. And that's really frustrating. And I could be bitter and angry about it, so we can all experience all of these things, or I can soften and let go and be surprised about what actually comes through when I do that. You know, like, take projectors. It's bitterness and success. It's like, I'm so bitter that nobody's giving me this invitation to, like, be who I am and to recognize my skills. You know, it's very important that their skills are recognized and that they get, oftentimes, the validation that they need. And if they prepare, instead of just waiting around, twiddling their thumbs, and if they just live their lives being them, doing the things that they are passionate about, that invitation comes, and it's not always clear and direct, like, I am inviting you to do this, but the opportunity presents itself, and they're welcomed. And because they're not chasing the invitation, they're not saying yes to invitations that they're really a no to, which is where they waste energy that they don't really have to waste as much. Or when, as a manifesto. I'd be curious to, like, when you were able to just start letting people know what you're doing instead of asking them for permission to do it. How did that change?
Lou: Yeah, I mean, it was kind of like the begin. Like the whole beginning of my whole journey of getting to where I am now. It was just like, this is what I'm doing. And I kind of just kept doing that thing until it somehow finally, you know, started working in some ways. So I'd love us to maybe transition or maybe evolve or unfold into gene keys. Right. So, taking this human design into. And maybe if you have a couple extra minutes, because I don't know if we can, you know, maybe do a good, good summary in eight minutes, but maybe we can spend a couple extra minutes, if that's okay with you, Michael.
Michael: Yeah, for sure.
Lou: Around this is. Now I have some. You know, I have some sense of human design. So now I'm kind of really taking a step back and being like, you know, I've kind of read different gene. My gene keys. Like, it's just a lot of numbers and I don't. Yeah. How is this the adventure? Like, where. Where does. Because it seems like this really makes you come alive, and this, in some ways, is, like, more a spark for you than human design. Correct me if that's false.
Michael: I think that's true for me. I mean, it definitely came alive and started speaking to me in its own way. So the cheat keys is an evolution from human design and it's its own separate thing.
Michael: I think I said this earlier, but if human design is the car, then gene keys is the adventure that that car is designed to go on. And so there's three. There's a thing within the gene keys called the golden path. And it's prized of three sequences. There's the activation sequence, which is your genius here in this world. There's the Venus sequence, which is really how relationships are your teacher. But it's all about the incarnation process and how you are conditioned through that and the key to unwinding your core wound. And then theres the pearl sequence which is how you unlock your prosperity and prosperity not being just financial success, but like to actually prosper with every atom of your bank. And so they all work together and theres parallels between. It's not even parallels, they're interwoven. So in human design you'll hear talk about something called an incarnation cross and what the incarnation cross is. It's just looking at where was the sun and earth when you were born and where was the sun and earth 88 days before you were born? And they were in one of the 64 gates of the I ching in the sky. And those specific combinations come together to form your incarnation cross in human design and your activation sequence in the gene keys.
Michael: And the way that I like to view gene keys because it can be the guy who founded it is a poet by nature and it's already a technical system and a synthesis of many things. So when you take poetic language and a complicated system, it can feel quite overwhelming. And it is. The nice thing though is that there's so many different entry points and access points to that system that you can find somewhere to start digesting it. You don't have to eat the whole plate at once. And I like to view it as kind of a playground, a jungle gym of contemplation that gives you the tools and gives you the seeds of, hey, here's some things to think about. But has an approach that's not just based in thinking but that takes the thought and turns it into emotion and turns it into eventually a physical state of being. So the idea being that if you contemplate stillness long enough, you will become still. Or if you contemplate, I don't know why they're all escaping me right now. If I contemplate beauty long enough, I will start seeing beauty everywhere.
Lou: But when you say contemplate, just defining. Because there's the contemplation in a more mystical sense which is kind of like a meditation in some ways. And then there's the contemplation in theoretical sense, which I think about the thing all the time.
Michael: Yeah. And so this is definitely more of the mystical understanding. And I would say that contemplation, thank you for calling me on it, is a word that is overused and underdescribed. And so within the meditation field, and most of your audience would probably acknowledge this.
Lou: Right.
Michael: There's two general forms of meditation. There's active meditation, which can involve things like visualization, concentration, other things like that. And then there's receptive meditations. In the gene keys context. There is meditation, no mind. And then there's concentration. Single, focused mind. Contemplation is where those two spaces overlap. And so it's like holding a jewelry box that has many different folds on it, kind of running your hand over it, allowing the mind to feel into it, keeping its focus there, but gently. And then it will find something, and that unlocks a new perspective. And the core book, if people are like gene keys, sounds interesting, but I mean, damn, this is a complicated system and a little bit woo woo, and I dont know if I want to go that far. Richard Rudd, the founder, has written many books on the chinkies. Theyre mostly pretty darn thick. His smallest book, which is like 98 pages, its called the art of contemplation, and it is the key to unlocking the entire system. And so it puts together a approach to contemplation that comes in three phases. Phase one, pause, like, just as a practice. And within that pause can come insight. So when you're at the red light and you're yelling at the dude in front of you for having slammed on their brakes, and you're impatient, running late to work, you don't have to say no to it, just pause it. My wife describes the pause, and I actually think it's helpful. It's like giving yourself permission to actually look at what is happening in your energetic body at that point in time without being attached to it. So just step into the observer role, but pause the action. And from that place, we are able to pivot. And that's phase two. It starts as mental pause. The pivot is emotional. I've been relating to this thing this way, and I can't force it to shift, but sometimes the shift just comes in, and now I've pivoted and it feels different. And then the third stage of contemplation is merging, where not only do I relate to it differently, but I'm embodying those lessons and taking them forwards, because I'm not just feeling them, they are natural. They have merged with my being. And so if we put it in terms of behavior change and are you in pre contemplation? Contemplation, you know, preparation, action or maintenance?
Michael: By the time that we get to merging, we're in maintenance. In terms of the actual pre contemplation and contemplation are the pausing or pre contemplation? We're not pausing, contemplation and preparation. We're in that pause state, and then the action is coming around the I've pivoted, I'm feeling it, I'm working with it, but it hasn't fully just become ingrained and natural to me yet.
Lou: And so, for example, using beauty, would that be a different. Would you work with it through that framework? Or is this more for when things trigger you?
Michael: Yes. So each gene key has a shadow state, a gift state, and a sitic state or a spiritual awakened state. And it's the same energy just operating at different frequencies. And we all have all 64 gene keys, but there's certain ones that are more prevalent in our chart. And working or looking at your gene keys profile is helpful to understand which themes might be more resonant with you. Beauty is part of the first gene key. It's the sitic kind of divine state of it. The shadow state is entropy and the gift state is freshness. And as humans, we're here to really get to the gift. So at the shadow state of beauty, everything is always changing. There's nothing that we can hold on to. And so we try to hold on to it, and it's so much change all the time that we end up having to numb ourselves out. And we want there to be energy in the system, but because we're trying to hold on, there's only entropy. We can only see the things that are slipping through our fingers at the gift state. Yeah, things are still slipping through our fingers, but oh, there's always something fresh that's there. There's always something new coming. Theres always a new flavor or a new scent that we can engage with. And then at the cytic level, it would be. And Richard, it would just be like the essence of beauty that is indescribable. Holding on and letting go. In Richard Rudds kind of audiobook versions, he tells the story of this monk who had a student, and the student went to go study with Lao Tzu, and they were studying in silence, doing everything, eating in silence, reading in silence. And one morning, they went up to the mountain to watch the sunrise, and the student was so overwhelmed by the sheer beauty and magnificence of the sun coming up that he uttered one single word, beautiful. And then they walked back down the mountain. They finished up their time, and the student went home. Fast forward. The student's teacher is talking with Lao Tzu, and they're chatting over tea, and this teacher asks, you know, what did you think of the student? And Lao Tzu ponders it for a while, and he says, talkative fellow.
Michael: And so this is great in the ayahuasca space, because people are like, can you describe the beauty or the lessons or what did you learn from ayahuasca? And it is this ineffable thing that sometimes putting words, putting even a single word to it can destroy or cheapen that experience. And at the same time, we're human, and so we try to, we want to put these words around these things.
Lou: And so podcasts and stuff.
Michael: Exactly. And we say, what are the gene keys? What are these systems that are pointing to the moon, telling us, go to the moon? And so for me, in my use of words, you know, beauty is that sunset before anything or sunrise before any words are said. It's that essence of things coming and going and not being able to manage them. And as that arises, as a creative impulse within us, can we allow it to come and express itself and shine? It's the first hexagram and the I ching. It is called the creative let's create. And then can we let it go so the new thing can come in? And I can think about that all day. But if I'm not embodying it, if I'm not living it, then I'm not there. And so when I talk about contemplation, I mean, can I play with looking at myself, holding on to things and my own tension, and wishing that I could hold on so tightly? And then can I also let it go and see what comes through and be new and fresh and beautiful and understanding all these systems to the best of my ability? These are archetypal energies and patterns that exist in the universe. And so when I'm working with clients as a coach, the ability to understand these archetypal dynamics, how they play out and find an awareness of where somebody might be on that spectrum of frequency, it allows me to use the words that are like energetic acupuncture needles and say, what is beauty to you when somebody's stuck in their doldrums and feeling numb? Or it's like, tell me what sensitivity really means to you. Tell me what restraint is all about. Tell me what celebration is. Celebration is, I'm pretty sure a city.
Lou: Yeah.
Michael: It can be used to unlock these things.
Lou: There's an inside joke with celebration that we won't have time for here. But I feel like this is. Thank you so much. I was so well said. And also, maybe you were channeling some Richard Rudd because it felt poetic and just really in the stream. And so I felt that, and I'm sure people listening could feel that and something that I think I love. One of the things I love about this podcast, and I don't know if there's a personality, if there's anything to point to personality, and I should be saying, like, this can all be so limiting. Don't let it limit you. Like we said, there's some people that just get so everything is through the filter of, oh, this person's this and this person's this, and how we relate to that. Like, don't do that. Don't be that person. But, you know, one of the things that is deeply fulfilling, you know, obviously I do coaching and mentoring, and obviously when people work with me, that's so fulfilling and that's supportive and honestly helps me make a business for sure. And there's this other kind of fulfillment that I get that when someone comes on this podcast, people hear about them, they go into their world and they do coaching with them, or they go on a retreat with them, or they're just in their world now and they're getting a lot of value. Like that is on some level of fulfillment that I'm just starting to really understand how much I enjoy that and how much it means to me. So, Miguel, where can people, what do you have coming up? I know you think you have a retreat coming up in, in November, so please, yeah, feel free to share about some of the things you're doing and where they can go deeper if they want to do some gene keys or coaching with you.
Michael: Cool. So if people want to work with ayahuasca and feel called to sit with me, we are doing a retreat in Costa Rica in November, and that will be three ayahuasca ceremonies over seven nights with dancing, movement, nature, that dangerous word, contemplation, and some other practices mixed in to the fold. And the intention of that retreat is really, it's called dance of the sacred. And it's really based around reminding people, not teaching, reminding people that their true essence is already sacred and inviting in. The question of how would your life change if you knew that to be true. In terms of coaching and other things, I offer a mixture of energy, work and coaching, utilizing my abilities as a reflector to provide a clear reflection in the mirror. And so if you're looking in the mirror recently and you don't love what you've seen, and you're ready to go on a journey, to step into who you authentically are meant to be, and you feel like it's time to blossom, then sign on up for the journey of alchemy at my website, www.alchemyshift.com. we can also mix in energy work and the gene keys, or a variety of other things. And if you're saying, wow, Michael, that feels like a lot, I don't even know where to start. Sign on up for a purposeful path call. We'll chat. It's free. And whether it's working with me, or whether it's gene keys, human design, or none of those things, it's a 30 minutes call to help you get unstuck and find the next step on your path to being authentic and real. And again, all of that can be found on my website, alchemyshift.com dot.
Lou: Such a great domain. I can't believe you got alchemyshift.com dot. I can't believe that was you could probably flip that domain. Stick out your domain entrepreneurs. Thanks Michael. Man, I so appreciate having this conversation. And to everyone listening, hope you enjoyed as much as I did. I will see you soon on another episode. Take care, friends.