Is The Coaching Industry a Pyramid Scheme?
We're going to go there with this weeks podcast! I hope my exploration furthers the contemplation around what it means to do this work with integrity. For some this may open up pandora's box. For others I hope it's a necessary conversation we should be having in the space.
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Podcast Transcript
If your purpose is to help others find their purpose, who then help others find their purpose? Are you in a pyramid scheme? Hello friends. Welcome to another episode of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast. I am your host, Lou Redmond and quick background because I have a feeling new people are going to be listening to this one. I share this podcast now on a 10 year journey of quitting my job to pursue my life's work. I have grown businesses in meditation, coaching, spirituality and want to give back, which I've been doing through this podcast. And today's episode is one I am nervous to speak on. It's one I'm still figuring out in my own being. It's something that I've been wrestling with for a few years now that I haven't really made public. So as a little disclaimer, this might open a Pandora's box for you if you take what I share and go follow the threads that I'll speak to. So if that is then, then yeah, welcome. Hope you can walk that path. So where to begin? And before we get into it, I want to let you know that doors to join my mastermind are currently open. Meraki Mastermind, which might be different than some of the masterminds I talk about later in this episode, is for you. If you know that you're not just building a business, you. You're following a calling. It's for meditation teachers, coaches, creators, spiritual guides who are struggling with making a full time living self doubt and uncertainty around how to make it work or show up in the world and then feeling isolation and loneliness because you're the only person you know doing what you're doing. My mastermind is for you to help us stay accountable to this work, to experiment, to help you do it in a way that's unique to you. It's not some cookie cutter program or my way of doing it. And it's for you to connect with a supportive and encouraging community so you don't have to do it alone. You can't do it alone. And so if you're looking for a group like this, please go check out the link in the description below and consider applying for Meraki Mastermind. All right. As I mentioned, this January marks 10 years since I quit my corporate job. I've been actually reading through my journals from that time period and it was very clear that I was searching for something that had more meaning. I was searching for how I could be used. What my purpose was was the time I was a marketing coordinator for an international brand. But I really longed for Something that I can make a difference. I worked for a golf and apparel company, and so there was not much meaning in selling new golf clubs to people who probably knew their old ones worked just fine. And so I quit. And shortly after, I learned of such a thing as a creative life coach, and it just really stuck to me. It sparked the vision of helping creators, artists, singers, musicians tap into their creativity. I had friends in the music industry and I thought of myself coaching them and being on the side stage of Coachella, rooting them on, and it just really lit a fire underneath me. But coaching for me wasn't the right time. I still had a lot of my journey to figure out. I had other things to work on. And it actually, you know, in that time period, I've spoken about my path a lot, but it ended up from speaking to book writing to meditation. And then the one on one coaching actually came back around in 2019, and I started taking on one on one clients. And that was a ripe time because the pandemic hit. I lost a lot of my schoolwork, my talks, that I was doing, anything that was in person. And one on one online coaching really took off and I fell in love with it. It was amazing. And it also really helped bring in this influx of revenue that allowed me to thrive because it gave this another pillar to the work that I was doing and to my business that I had. And I would joke early on to people that I knew that I would say, like, this is amazing work. Like, this is like God's network marketing scheme. And I was saying that in like the, the most beautiful way, like, how incredible that I'm doing my transformational work and I'm helping others feel more connected to themselves, feel more empowered, see the possibilities in their life and take action so that they are having this impact on other people. So I joked, yeah, this is like God's network marketing scheme to me. This is when I think about the ripple effect, right? How our actions impact those around us that then impact those beyond what we can see. I so believe in this concept. But then in 2021, I came across the podcast called Love and Light Confessionals and found this small underworld of people whose mission it seems to be in some ways to tear down the coaching industry. And I could not look away. There are people that were talked about on this podcast that I knew. There's actually people that I've done coaching with. And it was really hard to start listening and to reflect on how coaching has played in my life. You know, do I believe in it? The Value. Am I in some sort of grifty pyramid scheme that I'm not even aware of? And so in the past three years, I've continually been asking myself these questions, questions which I think honestly is so healthy, it is very healthy for us to question our integrity, to question our path, to question and notice, because it's when we're not aware that we can actually go down some slippery slopes, which, if you've listened to my podcast around my first psychedelic experience and greed, it can happen. And so that was a couple years ago. So you might have to go back to that, but you might have to go back to that episode to check it out. But in essence, this podcast opened the Pandora's box for me to look at other people that are having this view of the coaching industry being in some ways this big network marketing scheme, meaning that it's coaches coaching coaches on how to coach coaches. And since there's this influx of the coaching industry with the pandemic, there seems to be less of a market. And so in order to position yourself to have clients, you position yourself as a coach who helps coaches in their coaching business. And so coaches who need clients are looking for you as their coach. And so I've been sitting with that and it's been a huge reason. Now I. It's funny because I would consider myself like a real coach. Like, I coach regular people. Like, I don't just coach coaches. And I've kind of worn that as like a badge on my sleeve. Like, actually, we're not. We're doing deep healing work and I'm helping people in various aspects of life. And then as I do with this podcast, like, I love working with people who get it, who are doing this work. It. It turns me on so much, but I've had so much resistance because I fear the judgment of, he's just a coach that's coaching coaches. He's part of this network marketing scheme or pyramid scheme. There's nothing wrong with a network marketing scheme. It's their legal businesses. And I believe, like everything, it's neither good or bad. It's that there's good players and bad players in everything. But we're talking about a pyramid scheme, which is technically illegal, which the coaching industry really isn't. When you think of pyramid schemes, there's always a percentage that's going to a higher person. Like, that's not actually what's happening in the coaching industry. But alas, I'm going to talk more about the issues that I see that are in this kind of realm. And this is just my perspective. And I could be misguided, I could have my own limiting beliefs, but I'm going to take a. I'm going to take a stand on what. How I want this industry to be. Because I really do love coaching. I love coaches. I love the intention of really doing work that's meaningful, not just clocking in, selling golf clubs to people that don't necessarily need them. Now, there might be meaning in it, but there's actual deep meaning in making connection and helping others process and believe in themselves and take chances in their life and to feel the fulfillment that comes from that. So, in essence, is the coaching industry a scam? No. Are there scammy people in the coaching industry? Yes. What is the coaching industry? Now, that's another completely separate episode. It's the Wild west, because there is no official body, there's kind of the ifc. But it's really hard because anything you're helping someone else with, technically you can call yourself a coach. And. And that's also an amazing thing. It's like if you're an expert in cleaning your home, you can be a coach that helps others kind of organize their home in some ways. And so this is fun. This is amazing. That's why we get to do what we're good at and help others in that way. It's such a broad topic. Anyone can call themselves a coach without any training. And this is where things can get get dicey. Not that they don't have training, because honestly, there's probably better coaches that don't have training, doing great work than some people who do have training. So I'm not trying to say, like, the training is the X factor. However, it's just a Wild West. I love the Wild west, but it's important to speak to what I don't love about what I see. And so that's what I'm gonna get into now. Number one, my problems in the coaching industry is selling the dream of coaching as a lifestyle. This is where it's not about your purpose, your helping others, you're serving, your how God wants you to show up on earth. It's about you, but it's not like about you, as in, I need to do what's right and meaningful for me. It's about you in the sense of how do I do as little as I can, right? How do I just live this dream to fulfill my own hedonistic desires? How do I make enough income so I can go lay on the beach? And this is. I have a big Resistance to, to that sort of promotion, right. Like the work from anywhere. Like would, what would it be like to, to you know, be on the beach with your laptop and you know, be having this job and whatnot. And don't get me wrong, the lifestyle can be great for sure. But if you're getting into it just for the result, right? If you're saying, oh my gosh, there's this ad to be an online coach so I can have this lifestyle and have freedom I want, right? You're doing it for the freedom and for the lifestyle. You're not actually doing it to help people. And so I just think that there's a bad and it's a miss. It's not the intention that I want to promote for people. Like I want to work with the people who feel like they can't not do this, who feel like they would do it for free, who feel like they have a God given mission, a calling, a vocation towards helping and serving people in some way. Not because they want to do less or they want to make, you know, 30k, 40k in passive income while they sit on the beach. So this selling the dream of coaching as a lifestyle is an issue and it's easy to sell. And those people that can do that, they can find a lot of success. And you know, there's sometimes a lot of we'll talk about the business coaches, coaches and business coaches because this is where things can get a little interesting. I'm just curious about it. I'm kind of judgmental, but I'm just really curious about it. So, okay, selling the dream of coaching as lifestyle have an issue. Next thing that I have an issue in the coaching industry that I notice is that everyone just makes it all about the money. If you go to these coaching circles, sometimes people are just asking you like, oh, I gotta hit, you know, this K month or that K month, it's all about your revenue. You know, how many thousands of dollars you're making a month, what are you charging for your packages? And it's, it's not about the actual service, it's not about how do I do the craft better. Now don't get me wrong, most people have that figured out more than they have the selling and the making of the money. But let's remember why we're doing this. And what ends up happening is sometimes people are charging way more than they actually have the skill to deliver. And some people don't understand this. And now I could go on and on about coaching prices and some people can set can can kind of point to this as part of the issues of the coaching industry is that there's these absorbent prices and there are in some circles, in some senses and we'll talk more about that. Is that inherently wrong? Not necessarily. Now is it wrong to manipulate someone into something that they can't afford or to manipulate someone because you're trying to hit a certain revenue goal so that you can fuel your own ego about how successful of an entrepreneur you are? Maybe I'd consider that again. This all comes back to like it's hard to make good bad judgments as we know because we're all spiritual people that the good or bad is not. That's a ego thing. That's a part thing that there is nothing that there are good and bad players and that we could probably the same thing can can be shown can be done in different ways. And so I'm not trying to make it all bad or good. I'm just trying to point these things as concerns issues that I see continuing on is okay, you're selling the dream of coaching as a lifestyle. You're making it all about the money. And what can be pointed to in this realm of the business coaches helping business coaches help business coaches. This is where the pyramid scheme can be most referenced. In essence, if you are a coach that coaches coaches you are making let's say a million dollars a year and you help other business coaches get to 500,000 a year and their business model is helping other business coaches get to 250k a year. So you can see you're just going up this and then the 250k business coaches help other business coaches get to 100k a year, start their coaching business and then the 100k businesses start, you know, help the 50k businesses go to their coaching business. And this is where the argument is and what's happening in these cycles is what I notice is I think a lot of mindset which can also be potentially indoctrination. This is the question like is this mindset or am I being indoctrinated? And that's an interesting just question to start asking yourself. Do I have a limiting belief or am I just being indoctrinated to a system that actually is not in my integrity? I don't know. I'm just putting observations out there because what you're learning from those business coaches more than anything is selling like you're learning sales, you're learning how to enroll people into whatever the desire is which often ends up being more money. Right? That, that's their desire. You want to make more money in your coaching business? Well, you have to invest in my coaching business. So you have to invest 50k in my mastermind and then that'll help you. And typically my only advice to you is just going to be charge more for your prices because that's typically all the coaching, all the business coaches do is just helping you feel confident to charge more, which again, there's some real truth to that. But it just continues going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And so that's where this judgment is around. The pyramid scheme is a big part in this realm. Now you listening? You're probably not a business coach coaching business coaches. You might be a meditation teacher who's taking one on one clients. You might, you know, have a, you know, be doing somatic work with people. You might be a therapist listening to this and you're doing deep healing work and you're like, whoa, Lou, I didn't even realize that this existed. And you can see how it's tough for me to share this podcast because in some ways I am a coach helping coaches in their business. And so again, I'm just going to keep offering these things and you take whatever you can take. Now the next thing, probably my biggest issue in the coaching industry by far is high pressure sales tactics. And even when people say they're not doing high pressure sales tactics, they are still doing some sales tactics that can feel pressurizing. Right. They might package their procedure as like an ethical way, but they are still sales tactics. And this is going to be my insecurity around sales. Sure. This is, you know, I'm going to project some of my, you know, limiting beliefs around sales that this, this has a potential truth here, but I have seen so much icky stuff in this industry, right? From pitching your course and offering like a 5k discount if people sign up by the end. Right. When you're really just saying the course is worth that much and you're just giving people fake, you know, fake reasons for them to sign now into something that is a big investment that maybe they do need some time to think about, but you're trying to cajole them to make that decision, then that is gross. Another thing I don't love in sales conversations is when the coach who is not. And by the way, I've never done this. I'm just, I've, I've seen people talk about this. I've never done this, and I've never been a Receiver of this. But I've here heard this is when a coach who is by no means a financial expert asks their client about all the money that they have. Like, you know, oh, well, what do you have? You know, what's your savings account look like? Well, what does this account looks like? You know, and really getting into, you know, some personal stuff. And, you know, as I say this again, it's a yes end here. There's probably someone who can do that in a way that's really empowering to show people, hey, you have resources. These resources aren't doing anything in this account. Maybe they're making you feel more secure. And here's a place where you can put these resources to good work, to actually see change. Because the money's not doing anything for us. We need to. The money is meant to be used. It is a tool. And so I can see how that could be empowering. My personal opinion is that it's just not our business to. To do that, to be in other people's financial situation now if they are already enrolled as a client. I think this changes. And this is why it's so. It's so interesting to try to get to talk about money with a potential client because you still have some. You still have some benefit, right? You're benefiting from them saying yes. So I'm just. I'm always very weary of those kind of conversations before we're in a container. When we're in it, then, yeah, I'm here to, you know, if. If that's the topic that you want to work on, we can explore what that looks like. And I have friends who do kind of financial coaching in that way that is obviously needed. But if you're doing it to. For your own benefit before they've even signed on, now, that's a different sort of energy. And I know people listening to this that might do this. They'll say, lou, it's not for your benefits. For their benefit. They're going to see. And I. And I get. I get that selling a service. I understand that view. I'm just offering my perspective. As I've said a thousand times in this episode already, something that I've taken from Simone Soule, who done a lot of promotion around marketing as a coach and selling as a coach, is that when your price, your package feels easy for you to sell, then that it's your. It's a much bigger believer in the energetics. I'm a bigger believer in just you feeling like, you know, the value that you're giving you believe in the value and that's coming through. And when I know that when I've done that and when I do that, people just say yes. People just say, yeah, this is easy. Right. And it's never about the money. I charge 4000 for 6 month coaching container and that just feels so easy for me now. And that might be a lot for some or it might be a little for some. Again, it's not about the dollar amount but it's about doing something that feels easy because you're not coming at this sense of desperation and manipulation. And there's so many discovery calls that do this. And I'm thinking about actually doing a workshop on discovery calls because I am passionate about this topic. One other thing I do not like when coaches do that is often prescribed is take their credit card on the computer because if they don't give you your money on the call, they're not going to want to do it even if they say yes. And I think this is total BS that if you need someone to give you their credit card because you're afraid that they're, they're not going to spend two hours and they're going to have to think about and they're not going to want it anymore. I think that's a, that's a, that's a red flag, right? If people really want it. Yeah. Think about it. Or you know, if they say yes, I trust that you're saying yes and then I'm going to give you the, the link. I've never had someone say maybe one time, I think one time I used to never have someone for a while but I had one, maybe one person who said yes and then thought about it and said actually we're going to do it and that's fine. But the idea of like oh, get your credit card out and doing that transaction on the call. Not, Not a fan of that. Not a fan. Is there something wrong with it? Maybe not. But that's just my two cents. Where I think this is why I'm a big believer in meditation courses and content and long form content so that people really get a sense of who you are before they're showing up for the call. It's so different than showing up for a call and they're just meeting you is that they already have a sense of oh, I know if I want to work with this person, I already know this person, I already feel a level of trust with this person. And so your intention is not to manipulate them, it's to cultivate trust. Cultivate Trust, cultivate connection. And then enrolling, signing clients will be so much easier than, oh my God, I need to, I need to hit their pain point. I need to have them imagine, you know, if they didn't do it, you know, how they would feel. And then I'm gonna feel really bad. And then when they feel bad, I'm gonna, then I'm gonna have them visualize what it would feel like, you know, if it was good. And you know, to see that, that positive result. And then you'd be like, oh my gosh, I, I need this. And again, these are common practices and on discovery calls, quote, unquote, sales calls. And I'm not a fan. All right, last issue. And this is again more in the realm of true kind of pyramid scheme stuff is that if, you know, this is out there, I don't think anyone, I, I've personally not seen it. I've seen it talked about where the whole coaching thing, the whole coaching relationship is selling like a course to another person and the course is on how to sell the course to other people. You can see how this is a little scheme. You had a marketing course that's teaching you how to sell the marketing course to other people, who then teaches the course on how to sell the course to other people. And none of you are interested in that because the coaching industry is not just the spiritual industry, right? This is, this is broader than spirituality and meditation and transformation. This is also just coaching on anything. And money, you know, getting more money is, is, I think those people that are doing it like that, right, Just to. It's all about the money. It's all about, let's, let's coach people, let's enroll, let's get money, money, money. That making a bad rep for a lot of the work that I know a lot of good coaches are doing, a lot of really well intentioned people are doing. That is the people that I want to serve and why I share this podcast and what I hope to cultivate in my communities and my network. And to you, the listening, listening this far into this podcast, if this is fascinating to you, it's worth watching the Netflix documentary Escaping Twin Flames because that is the closest thing to how the coaching industry operates in just a business model sense. I'm not even saying the business model wrong. I think the person that was running that community, how people were in that is insane to me. But obviously they're showing very terrible clips, but it's absolutely ridiculous. But it's interesting because it is close to how the coaching industry and the model works, which, again, there's nothing wrong with the model, but if you like these type of things and you want to go deeper, I would definitely check that Netflix documentary out. It's fascinating. Okay, so I don't know if I've done this justice. I don't know how this has been for you. Please let me know. I'm sure I will speak more on this or let me know if you want me to speak more on this or how your thoughts are on the coaching industry. Was this new to you? Is this new information? You're like, oh, I've heard this, but I haven't really heard it like that. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And to answer my question that I began with, if your purpose is to help others find their purpose, you then help others find their purpose. Are you in a pyramid scheme? My answer is no. You are in God's network marketing scheme, meaning that I truly believe that that's actually what we're here to do. We are here to awaken, to heal. And in doing so, we help others awaken and heal. And that is the ripple effect. That is, as Ramdas says, us walking each other home. Healed people heal people. And that ripple goes on and on. And so there is a network effect, as there are in everything. But don't get it twisted. If you come across some of these accounts and start doubting your purpose, only you can know the foundation of what your work is built upon. And if it's built upon a foundation of love, of service, of letting spirit guide you and your work, then I promise you, that's going to take you so much further. And you're going to be. You're going to be around when all of these other types of coaches burn out or lose the meaning in what they're doing, that you're going to be around for years and years, continuing to feel more connected to God, more connected to inspiration, and sharing your gifts with the world. And so thank you for listening for this long. Thanks for being a part of this podcast. Thanks for being a part of my community. If you are a coach that feels compelled to do work with deeper meaning and connection, if you're a meditation teacher, if you're any creative soul listening to this, it's January and doors are open to my mastermind called Meraki. Meraki is a Greek word.